GP Bikes beta7b

[Hawk]

The Victoria track in Beta 6c was NDS, but the Beta7b version is a Dynamic Surface track. Maybe if you or anyone else have the old Beta 6c installer you can extract the Victoria NDS version to test the difference? 

Hawk.
PS: If anyone can send me a download link for the beta6c Victoria track I will put it into the Track Downloads Database as an NDS version for current and future comparison testing. 

Just run the beta6c installer with the "-extract" option (as explained here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=24.0).
You'll have all beta6 files in a folder (as if they were installed), so just unzip tracks.pkz ad you'll have beta6's Victoria. You'll probably need to rename it properly (foldler name, flies names and references in .ini and .cfg files).

MaX.

Thanks for the info Max. 

Already done the name changing. It will be named "Victoria_NDS" to avoid conflict with the original "Victoria" track. 

Hawk.

[skerp]

guys, before you get too worked up about customer rights and so on, just try and keep in mind that the sim is still under development.
it can get frustrating, sure, but it's seldom much different for any other software.
once the V1 public release is available, and it doesn't work, then sure, you may complain, but it's a bit early to be getting so upset still.
patience, gentlemen, good things come to those who wait.

As long you are not here. It may not enough ...
I unfortunately took from the beta3 or 4, and I do not remember, but there are people leading from the first beta.
What you say is fine if you take some time, you've just started and this may be a minor problem for you, since she does not know the whole simulator, but there are people who for many years and also the problem of core.exe therefore what you just supposed to wait for many others have already waited too long. We need as a solution to core.exe, we much much much time with that problem, I mean years, many many years.

Jose Reina  +100000000000 I'm fully agree with you. 
   This "epic tale"is like "The lord of the rings"
Are 8 years, I am waiting the end of  the  Movie!

[BOBR6 84]

guys, before you get too worked up about customer rights and so on, just try and keep in mind that the sim is still under development.
it can get frustrating, sure, but it's seldom much different for any other software.
once the V1 public release is available, and it doesn't work, then sure, you may complain, but it's a bit early to be getting so upset still.
patience, gentlemen, good things come to those who wait.

As long you are not here. It may not enough ...
I unfortunately took from the beta3 or 4, and I do not remember, but there are people leading from the first beta.
What you say is fine if you take some time, you've just started and this may be a minor problem for you, since she does not know the whole simulator, but there are people who for many years and also the problem of core.exe therefore what you just supposed to wait for many others have already waited too long. We need as a solution to core.exe, we much much much time with that problem, I mean years, many many years.

Jose Reina  +100000000000 I'm fully agree with you. 
   This "epic tale"is like "The lord of the rings"
Are 8 years, I am waiting the end of  the  Movie!

Lol!!

But once you see the film theres no need to watch it again.. 

Core.exe crashes are very frustrating, but the fact this is a project keeps me coming back.. All the finished games ive played over the years I get bored of fairly quickly and then await the next game..  with GPB so far theres always a new update to look forward to, even if it takes a while.

[CapeDoctor]

yes guys, i know exactly how long it has been - and while i can understand the frustration, it does not condone the attacks on the dev's.
for the record, although i have only joined the forum recently, and been active here only since beta 6, i first tried the demo of b2, several years back, yes,(not 8 years, though, that is an exaggeration)
so i am well aware of the time involved - so not look at the time i have been registered here, as that does not reflect how long i have been aware of the development of this sim.
also, considering the other projects running in tandem - MX, WRS, then it's easier to understand.
if it had taken this length of time, and the devs were ONLY working on GPB, then i might be a little frustrated, too.
whatever the reasons, getting angry at the devs will never help the situation, this should be easy enough to understand, no?

[yoshimura]

8 years of development not to be heard 
appointment in 8 years.

[Stout Johnson]

Ok, fact check:

• beta7 generally well received, many people seem to like it
• core.exe errors still very prevalent
• high frustration potential, since one wants to ride but if one gets kicked from the game every 2-3 laps, it is very frustrating
• most core.exe errors obviously correlated to dynamic track feature (NDS servers seem to be rather stable with few core errors)

Getting rid of the dynamic track feature, would help in the short term but not in general. The dynamic track feature is very nice and a very unique feature that helps set Piboso's sims apart. So it should stay, I think that it is out of the discussion. But with the current problems it causes it needs to be tackled asap.

Proposal to the devs:
Would it be possible to start from square one, begin all new with the programming of the dynamic track feature? Then Piboso could upload new versions of the beta for us as a community to test under real conditions. That Piboso could incrementally start to develop a dynamic track feature that works without causing core.exe errors. As soon as the problem might act up bad, it would be easier for him to narrow down the cause of it, because e.g. the problem started to occur when version beta7c1.08 was released while it worked fine when beta7c1.07 was used by the community.

This approach would help in many ways:

• the community would have the advantage of having a beta version that could be used for online races
• this would help to keep frustration down for users who do want to use the sim online, because gameplay is very well
• this would help to keep frustration down for the devs too, as there would be more helpful feedback rather than constant complaining
• the dynamic track feature might be re-coded very easily with the constant feedback from the community
• devs could make use of the generally very helpful community around here
• the core.exe problem does occur on every single sim from Piboso, so it really should be tackled asap, it would help all the projects
• it would help with the reception of the sims among new customers very much
• modders would be much more willing to get alive again; and there have been very nice mods already; getting the modding alive again would make for very good promotion for Piboso's sims; not only GPB, I think that there is much potential for WRS really, if only good modders would be attracted (and they are only attracted if their mods are used by a wide range of players; and they won't come with broken online play)

What do you guys think? What do the devs think?

[HornetMaX]

What I'd do:

• Have an in-game option to allow to use a DS track as an NDS one. This will avoid having to keep 2 copies of each track (the DS one and the NDS one). The option will have to be client side (for offline) and server side (for online). It doesn't look complex to put in place and may be useful even once DS works fine.
• Do some serious debug on the various core reasons. In order:
  
  
  
  • Offline (and online) crashes due to ODE/Normalization error: these should be relatively easy to trap, allowing to output detailed debug info when the crash happens. Notice that it may be that all these errors are in fact due to track issues (and not software issues). However, I do think GPB should not crash even if the track has a problem (hole, not connected surfaces, etc).
  • Offline crashes (other than ODE): sometimes going to a track, then back to the main menu, then switch bike and go to track again makes GPB crash. It shouldn't happen, it's a sign that something is seriously wrong somewhere.
  • Online server going nuts: sometime the online server goes wild, laps are no longer detected, lap times not transferred, live data stops, etc.
  • Online client crashes: these are the hardest to work on, for obvious reasons. There's a tiny hope that in fact they are due to one of the reasons of the previously listed problems.

IMPORTANT: if anybody has a systematically reproducible offline crash, you should report it with exact instructions on how to reproduce.

I'm sure Piboso does not need to be told how to debug this stuff. But risking to be Cpt. Obvious, what I'd do as last resort would be to provide debug beta versions (maybe just a debug core.exe is enough) with stripped out features. For example (not necessarily meaningful):

• core1.exe with no audio support
• core2.exe with no shaders
• core3.exe with no 3d grass
• etc.

[skerp]

yes guys, i know exactly how long it has been - and while i can understand the frustration, it does not condone the attacks on the dev's.
for the record, although i have only joined the forum recently, and been active here only since beta 6, i first tried the demo of b2, several years back, yes,(not 8 years, though, that is an exaggeration)
so i am well aware of the time involved - so not look at the time i have been registered here, as that does not reflect how long i have been aware of the development of this sim.
also, considering the other projects running in tandem - MX, WRS, then it's easier to understand.
if it had taken this length of time, and the devs were ONLY working on GPB, then i might be a little frustrated, too.
whatever the reasons, getting angry at the devs will never help the situation, this should be easy enough to understand, no?

No  exaggeration
The First "Alpha"   of  Year 2008. if calculations that we in 2016 soon, the counts are simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_K4iRrhPI4

[Napalm Nick]

[CapeDoctor]

so far, all my b7 testing has been done on Victoria stock circuit.
after reading about several issues others have experienced with problems while going uphill, i decided to try one of my formerly favorite tracks, Mugello, to see what it'd be like. i say formerly, as i now experienced firsthand definite issues on the uphill bits, more specifically the first right hand turn after the straight (still called San Donato?) and then again on the uphill section between Arrabiata 1 and 2.
i have basically the same problem with any bike i've tried there so far - please excuse my noobish attempts at trying to explain it, lol - what it feels like, is that halfway(or some point close to it) the camber of the track suddenly dips, and even though i am trying to stay on one line, with no extra input, the bike suddenly starts turning in a hell of a lot, and very quickly, almost as if it's being dragged into the corner - result, if i don't completely back off the throttle on what is essentially a flatout section, is that the front end dips in and i lose it.
in the first turn, i could see from my rubber marks that i was losing it at virtually the exact same place in the turn every time.
i most certainly did not have this problem with b6.
now, as this is not a stock track, i don't want to bitch to the dev's about it, just thought it should be discussed here with others, maybe to help identify the problem.
as the track is unchanged between versions, the problem must lie with the bike physics - the same problem occurs with stock and mod bikes.
i hope i've explained the issue sufficiently, i've just said what it feels like - as if the track camber suddenly increases positively at an alarmingly quick rate.
obviously it's not the track, so something in the physics is causing this.
although Victoria track does have some uphill/downhill sections, they are not as extreme as Mugello, and i can't say i've experienced the same problem there.
anyway, keen to hear what others experienced here.... 

[janaucarre]

i have tried the 500cc at cadwell park and it was a great pleasure,  i think that's not the same pleasure with a 1000cc because less leaning

[Stout Johnson]

Ok, fact check:

• beta7 generally well received, many people seem to like it
• core.exe errors still very prevalent
• high frustration potential, since one wants to ride but if one gets kicked from the game every 2-3 laps, it is very frustrating
• most core.exe errors obviously correlated to dynamic track feature (NDS servers seem to be rather stable with few core errors)

Getting rid of the dynamic track feature, would help in the short term but not in general. The dynamic track feature is very nice and a very unique feature that helps set Piboso's sims apart. So it should stay, I think that it is out of the discussion. But with the current problems it causes it needs to be tackled asap.

Proposal to the devs:
Would it be possible to start from square one, begin all new with the programming of the dynamic track feature? Then Piboso could upload new versions of the beta for us as a community to test under real conditions. That Piboso could incrementally start to develop a dynamic track feature that works without causing core.exe errors. As soon as the problem might act up bad, it would be easier for him to narrow down the cause of it, because e.g. the problem started to occur when version beta7c1.08 was released while it worked fine when beta7c1.07 was used by the community.

This approach would help in many ways:

• the community would have the advantage of having a beta version that could be used for online races
• this would help to keep frustration down for users who do want to use the sim online, because gameplay is very well
• this would help to keep frustration down for the devs too, as there would be more helpful feedback rather than constant complaining
• the dynamic track feature might be re-coded very easily with the constant feedback from the community
• devs could make use of the generally very helpful community around here
• the core.exe problem does occur on every single sim from Piboso, so it really should be tackled asap, it would help all the projects
• it would help with the reception of the sims among new customers very much
• modders would be much more willing to get alive again; and there have been very nice mods already; getting the modding alive again would make for very good promotion for Piboso's sims; not only GPB, I think that there is much potential for WRS really, if only good modders would be attracted (and they are only attracted if their mods are used by a wide range of players; and they won't come with broken online play)

What do you guys think? What do the devs think?

Is there any chance of getting a reaction on this proposal from Piboso or at least one of the moderators? Feel free to tell me it is garbage, but some sort of statement would be very welcome.

[janaucarre]

HI,
that's a good idea,  but i can't say for piboso.

[yoshimura]

HI,
that's a good idea,  but i can't say for piboso.

a response assistance would be so substantial

[Napalm Nick]

Is he? Who knows, cant say I'm inspired to give feedback anymore. Plenty of enthusiastic and interested questions in this thread about the B7 changes, zilch interest in any of it. Surprises me when the founder members ask a question still lol, nutters.
Not after in-depth replies personally, but I can't understand why there is no engagement, but anyway  I have no right to expect or hope for anything as I have been told so sitting here with my thumb up my ass is the way ahead. 

Edit: only fair to say there has been some interest in the feedback here by the developer but it took more time than we hope. Never mind, apologies for getting on my soap box.