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Isle Of Man

Started by Reactive, December 26, 2013, 11:35:21 AM

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HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 24, 2015, 01:40:57 AM
Not sure to be exact because after 10 mins the timer on Max's HUD stopped showing the time(Is that a bug Max?)
No, it's just that to save space I only show times up to 9m59s99

I may want to think how to adapt all that for very long tracks where lap times are more than 10mins and time differences may be more than 59.99 second.
Maynbe just an option "Show long times" that loses the precision below seconds but shows times up to 9h59m59s.

MaX.

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 24, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 24, 2015, 01:40:57 AM
Not sure to be exact because after 10 mins the timer on Max's HUD stopped showing the time(Is that a bug Max?)
No, it's just that to save space I only show times up to 9m59s99

I may want to think how to adapt all that for very long tracks where lap times are more than 10mins and time differences may be more than 59.99 second.
Maynbe just an option "Show long times" that loses the precision below seconds but shows times up to 9h59m59s.

MaX.

It would be great for future proofing your Max HUD utility for very long circuits for sure. But a circuit like the Isle of Man is going to be a long while coming, so obviously there is no urgency yet.  ;)

Thanks Max.

Hawk.

h106frp

Watching through the video it struck me that the models, textures and color palettes would need a lot of work to bring them up to a level that is worthy of the more modern GPB graphics engine, reminds me of GP500 era graphics. I think you would really end up only purchasing the track geometry and relying on the GPB modders to try and update the appearance within the confines of this model space.

I'm not really sure the track was designed with the higher vantage point of a bike rider in mind, you can ofter see the razor thin walls and hedge-line tops and the rider sometimes seems quite out of scale to his surroundings.

If one of the experienced track builders could work out how to manage this as a group task and break down artwork creation and model designing to build it from scratch i think you might end up with a more impressive finished track.

I have watched the JP video of his full length IOM track and that looks pretty good  but still under development, i am not sure what JP will do though as i am guessing a lot of car sim people will switch to assetto corsa and expect tracks that fully utilize its shiny new graphic interface.


girlracerTracey

January 24, 2015, 11:51:13 AM #213 Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 11:53:47 AM by girlracerTracey
The TT "Highlights" track is for me an interesting proposition. Yes the graphics look dated now but they could be improved and upgraded for gpbikes. Jim Pearson's "Highlights" track has been out for some years now and was developed when graphical abilities & expectations in track building were lower. You would be buying into the track geometry and the track "concept" more than specifically the graphics.  Also as an aside do not forget that Jim Pearson's TT tracks are designed to look "retro" and old fashioned in their appearance to match the 1960's era of Grand Prix Legends.

This is why it is an interesting concept for me. It is in effect an old track now. What I would be hoping for is something more in terms of a gesture in perhaps making a contribution to a charity/charities of Jim Pearson's choice rather than a high end payment amount. If that makes sense?   

O.K. so we know the graphics need some attention and upgrade. But what about the track? What sort of a challenge and an experience is it to actually ride the TT Mini track? What is its character like as a "concept" track? What would it add to gpbikes? Well for me it is a unique experience to ride the track and it would definitely add something to gpbikes. And that really is the point here. Not necessarily the state of the graphics..those can be improved upon I would have thought.

Just thinking aloud. I also take on board what others have said previously in this thread.

Turning to the question of the gpbikes community getting together and making their own full length 37 3/4 mile version of the TT track my obvious question on this is how long, as an estimation, might it take to do this? To my mind it would be a very large project for our modders, talented as they are, to undertake.  Sorting out the geometry of the track in itself is one thing, replicating accurately the appearance of the track would of course be another. You guys know more about the actual challenges involved than I do. But I just thought I would ask the question. Being a cheeky monkey  :)

grT

P.S. it would not surprise me if from time to time Jim Pearson did some basic internet searches on what people are saying about his track projects. So we need to remember who might be reading this now or in the future and remain respectful to him & his work notwithstanding the fact that we as a modding community may not particularly warm to the suggestion of having to pay for it.     


girlracerTracey

As a parting shot and comment from me on this general subject a number of you guys are making the comment that rather than make a donation for a new track they would rather donate some more funds, as they can afford to do so, to help PiBoSo in his development and improvement of gpbikes. I can understand those sentiments. Of course I think we all can. Personally, however, I always like to keep my options open with this sort of thing and would at least entertain the possibility of doing both if the end justified the means..

On this theme I for one would be happy to consider making an annual "contribution" towards gpbikes. To help things along. Has anyone else considered such an option? This would have to be on a voluntary basis I feel. Again just thinking aloud.

Best to all, grT 




h106frp

January 24, 2015, 12:29:37 PM #215 Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 12:31:57 PM by h106frp
Hello grT,
I would personally have no problem with a token goodwill donation to a worthwhile charity, the work JP has done (on his own) cannot be underestimated in presenting a free quality simulation of the worlds most famous road race. I can fully understand why he wishes to exert control over how it is exploited in the future. If you watch his pre-release video of the full track version it is truly stunning.

My comments on the visuals recognize that the GPL engine is now quite old (but impressive even now) and you can only work within its technical confines - no offense meant.

I think people are rightly concerned that if the track was developed to a marketable state then someone from outside of the GPB community may attempt to exploit both the communities and JP's  hard work for their own financial gain and create all sorts of unnecessary unpleasantness. The situation is further complicated by the commercial aspects of GPB but i think everyone here understands how the GPB environment has been designed to welcome modifications in the form of additional tracke, biker etc.

JP has happily shared his work within a community he already trusts (GPL), and as you correctly state, the GPB community need to try and build this same relationship with him to obtain his support for a port to a modern bike sim. Alienating him will benefit nobody and he has done nothing to offend this community - it is his track after all.

Loved the road tracks on GP500... We need the IOM on GPB :), well done to RiccoChicco for managing the proof of concept and getting the track to work in GPB, i am sure it was far from simple and has involved considerable effort on his part.

Hawk

I think the question here is a simple one:

Do you guys want a "Mini IOM TT" Circuit, as is being discussed here, be it with certain conditions to obtain JP's permission for use with GPB.

Or do you guys want the full length 37.73-miles IOM TT circuit?

It's a simple choice I think.

Personally I'd prefer the full length circuit.  :P

We certainly have the combined talent here to do a full size TT circuit in a very reasonable time frame. It would just require the organisation of getting a team together and the correct allocation of the tasks required within the team to get it done.

But would it be better to wait until the online stability issue(namely the core.exe problems) have been sorted out before huge circuits like this are considered for a scratch creation? I personally think it would be wise to do so. In the meantime a database of required circuit data and reference materials could be created for whenever it will be required.


Hawk.

PiBoSo


:-\

After a quick look at the preview video of the track, the quality is not on par with what GP Bikes and the TT deserve.
The layout seems reasonably accurate ( but bumpy ); everything else looks like 1998.
It's not worth one cent or one email IMHO.

Despite the setback that the IoM TT simulator had, the plan is still to create it at some point, when there will be enough funds to allocate.
The dream is to laser-scan the full course.
As a separate project, though, that includes a few dedicated features like pit-stops and sidecars.

Overall, it is debatable if it would make sense to embark on such a massive project for GP Bikes.
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

BOBR6 84

January 24, 2015, 05:05:02 PM #218 Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 05:14:36 PM by BOBR6 84
Quote from: PiBoSo on January 24, 2015, 03:32:49 PM

:-\

After a quick look at the preview video of the track, the quality is not on par with what GP Bikes and the TT deserve.
The layout seems reasonably accurate ( but bumpy ); everything else looks like 1998.
It's not worth one cent or one email IMHO.

Despite the setback that the IoM TT simulator had, the plan is still to create it at some point, when there will be enough funds to allocate.
The dream is to laser-scan the full course.
As a separate project, though, that includes a few dedicated features like pit-stops and sidecars.

Overall, it is debatable if it would make sense to embark on such a massive project for GP Bikes.

If you created an IOM TT simulator with a laser scanned circuit, sidecars, pit stops.. basicly the whole TT event.

You would make alot of money!

ps. Maybe the isle of man itself would help you with that project? its government funded so... ££

h106frp

Anyone know a streetview driver on the IOM we can bribe to do a circuit of the full course ? ::) Silly little car seems to spend forever driving around my dull little town mapping the streets, sure they would have more fun on the TT course ;)

PiBoSo

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on January 24, 2015, 05:05:02 PM
ps. Maybe the isle of man itself would help you with that project? its government funded so... ££

Nope.  :-X
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

RiccoChicco

January 24, 2015, 06:25:26 PM #221 Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 06:29:59 PM by RiccoChicco
Quote from: PiBoSo on January 24, 2015, 03:32:49 PM
the quality is not on par with what GP Bikes and the TT deserve.
The layout seems reasonably accurate ( but bumpy ); everything else looks like 1998.

You're right on this point. But the track is currently a raw conversion, it could be improved a lot graphically without making it too heavy for the engine.

Quote from: PiBoSo on January 24, 2015, 03:32:49 PM
Despite the setback that the IoM TT simulator had, the plan is still to create it at some point, when there will be enough funds to allocate.
The dream is to laser-scan the full course.
As a separate project, though, that includes a few dedicated features like pit-stops and sidecars.

Overall, it is debatable if it would make sense to embark on such a massive project for GP Bikes.

I think all GPB buyers should be interessed to buy such a game, and even more I think. To have a good TT game, I'm ready to pay 50€, like 90% of bad PC games.

Do you have an idea of the funds needed to have the laser scanned track?


Quote from: BOBR6 84 on January 24, 2015, 10:02:32 AM


The TT circuit has taken JP a long time to create.. but, the fact he will release it to the GP500 game free of charge and NOT GPB....


This conversion was not made by Jim Pearson himself but by someone else without permission if I'm not wrong.

Ricco

girlracerTracey

Quote from: PiBoSo on January 24, 2015, 03:32:49 PM
After a quick look at the preview video of the track, the quality is not on par with what GP Bikes and the TT deserve. The layout seems reasonably accurate ( but bumpy ); everything else looks like 1998.
It's not worth one cent or one email IMHO.

Of course everyone will have their own opinion on something like this one. That's only natural. Clearly it seems that this is not going to happen on gpbikes. Which is fine. I think it was worth mentioning however and showing to people nevertheless.

I'm also sure if permission for conversion had been granted members of the gpbikes' community would have thoroughly enjoyed the experience of racing on this track. Take my word for it is a fantastic track to race on.. 

I agree the graphics on this track do look dated though. It would have needed a bit of a touch-up.  ;)

Only observation I would make on this is that I didn't actually find the track to be that bumpy tbh. As we know in real life the IOM TT track is probably the bumpiest track in the world. Particularly on the high speed run into Ramsey. But it is bumpy pretty much everywhere else as well..compared to a more conventional track. My slight concern, which I'm sure could be addressed to an extent through careful bike set-up and fine tuning was how reactive to the bumps on this track the selected gpbikes' motorcycles that I tried were. My honest opinion is that most of the bikes I tried seemed over-reactive to the bumps. They did not soak up the bumps quite as well as I thought they would do. That's just an observation on my part and nothing more. But it was certainly interesting to take some of the motorcycle in gpbikes round a high speed and bumpy circuit. It was an intriguing test for me to do this. Otherwise I have to say the experience felt great. :)

As I say I think Ricco did a good job with this one.

Best to all.

grT






girlracerTracey

Quote from: RiccoChicco on January 24, 2015, 06:25:26 PM
To have a good TT game, I'm ready to pay 50€, like 90% of bad PC games.

I would quite happily pay £100..but that's just me. I'm a bit mad like that.. ;)

grT


matty0l215

I'd pay for a TT add on (DLC  ;) ;)) If it was scratch built, lazer-scanned, proper timing system the whole shabang.   ;D
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