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counter steer without "directsteer" code

Started by cyborg chip, April 15, 2019, 03:35:22 pm

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cyborg chip

Hi guys.

I have a motorcycle cockpit with homemade handlebar mod in a G27.
check the video below if you want to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2xxxxfj5o0&t=160s

I want to use counter steer technics, but i tried the direcsteer hardcore code and this is impracticable to drive in low speeds and in other situations.

today, i use simple inverted lean config in gpbikes sertup menu for "emulate" a counter steer technincs.  but its not ideal for me.

is there another way to use counter steer without directsteer code?

sorry for my english

many thankssss!!

passerBy

Hello there.

Direct steering is not impractical, it just takes a while to learn to employ. Besides, I hope you used directsteer=2 (DS2)? Now, using DS1 with pretty much anything IS impractical.
With DS2, however, a better wheel is recommended. A Logitech like a G27 has a lot of problems, the most annoying of them being the loss (or almost a loss) of FFB in the center. And it just so happens that when you are negotiating a corner at high lean angles, you happen to hit that "sweet spot" of almost no FFB, so you have to switch to relying more on your eyes than on the FFB.

Still, it can be done. And I'd say that if you have an FFB wheel at all, this is the only mode worth using. Anything else just doesn't feel like riding a bike to me.

cyborg chip

thanks for reply.

i did use the direct steer 2 code, i'll try other values combination. the g27 really have a bad ffb :/.

doubledragoncc

Great system Cyborg.

G27 was my first mod as well lol. I ran with 40 degrees of steering angle if I remember. What do you set yours at?

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

passerBy

Quote from: cyborg chip on April 16, 2019, 03:13:21 pmthanks for reply.

i did use the direct steer 2 code, i'll try other values combination. the g27 really have a bad ffb :/.
You are welcome. I actually meant that you are using just the right mode :) I'll share the values I use:

profile.ini
[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=25

In the Logitech profiler I set Degrees of Rotation to 50°
Now, since all the bikes in GPB (as far as I know) have the steering lock of 25°, that gives us 1:1 steering (because Logitech profiler counts the whole span from one lock to the other, while GPB needs only the angle to one side with the other being the exact same).

I don't run maximum FFB, since not only that distorts what you feel, it can theoretically make you drop the bike because of how violent it gets at times. 60% to 70% should be fine. And yeah, you are right, G27 has a notoriously bad FFB. I have a feeling any half-decent Thrustmaster would be better in this role.

I turn all the helpers off except for the front/back rider lean (until I get my head tracking up and running again) and have the left/right rider lean on the uppermost left and right buttons on the wheel. Also, not having a separate axis for the rear brake and not wanting to give up the clutch, I simply assigned both brakes to the brake pedal. You need to tweak the rear brake curve and span to make it not lock your rear wheel up.

The other Simulation settings are as follows:
Field of View: 74
Pitch: 30%
Tilt:  25%

No Free Look at the moment, no Corner Anticipation. I ride from the first onboard camera that shows the rider's lean.

@DD, give these settings a try too, DD :)

cyborg chip

Quote from: passerBy on April 16, 2019, 03:54:01 pm
Quote from: cyborg chip on April 16, 2019, 03:13:21 pmthanks for reply.

i did use the direct steer 2 code, i'll try other values combination. the g27 really have a bad ffb :/.
You are welcome. I actually meant that you are using just the right mode :) I'll share the values I use:

profile.ini
[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=25

In the Logitech profiler I set Degrees of Rotation to 50°
Now, since all the bikes in GPB (as far as I know) have the steering lock of 25°, that gives us 1:1 steering (because Logitech profiler counts the whole span from one lock to the other, while GPB needs only the angle to one side with the other being the exact same).

I don't run maximum FFB, since not only that distorts what you feel, it can theoretically make you drop the bike because of how violent it gets at times. 60% to 70% should be fine. And yeah, you are right, G27 has a notoriously bad FFB. I have a feeling any half-decent Thrustmaster would be better in this role.

I turn all the helpers off except for the front/back rider lean (until I get my head tracking up and running again) and have the left/right rider lean on the uppermost left and right buttons on the wheel. Also, not having a separate axis for the rear brake and not wanting to give up the clutch, I simply assigned both brakes to the brake pedal. You need to tweak the rear brake curve and span to make it not lock your rear wheel up.

The other Simulation settings are as follows:
Field of View: 74
Pitch: 30%
Tilt:  25%

No Free Look at the moment, no Corner Anticipation. I ride from the first onboard camera that shows the rider's lean.

@DD, give these settings a try too, DD :)


hmm, understood bro!

i use ride track with my vr headset to lean the rider! it's good beacuse the cockpit move to sides.
i run on some championships at brazil and i need to be faster fo chase my friends that using joypads haha.
thanks again.


cyborg chip

Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 16, 2019, 03:21:56 pmGreat system Cyborg.

G27 was my first mod as well lol. I ran with 40 degrees of steering angle if I remember. What do you set yours at?

DD


thanks dragon.
your system is great.
i use about 57 degrees and inverted lean for emulate a countersteer, but i'll use 40 degrees too.
today i'll to test the ride3 with vorpx virtual reality :P.

doubledragoncc

Cool.
Let me know how vorpx virtual is I am interested in it too.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls<br /><br /><br /><br />i5 7600 5.0GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix GTX1060 OC 6GB DDR5 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler

passerBy

Quote from: cyborg chip on April 16, 2019, 05:46:40 pmhmm, understood bro!

i use ride track with my vr headset to lean the rider! it's good beacuse the cockpit move to sides.
i run on some championships at brazil and i need to be faster fo chase my friends that using joypads haha.
thanks again.
You are very welcome! Though I can't promise this will make you go faster any time soon, especially with just another G27... On the other hand, rider tracking AND the VR set should definitely help you (then please disregard my FoV, pitch and tilt settings).

I personally do it just for the immersion, because I don't feel like I'm riding a bike otherwise. I was extremely slow at first when I just started, but now I think I've gotten much better :) Anyhow, I enjoy the riding like this even without VR (can only imagine how good it could be otherwise). If GP Bikes didn't have direct steering, I don't know what I would do... Probably would simply quit bike sims altogether.

passerBy

Almost forgot!
I absolutely recommend putting this into the [aids] (what an appropriate name for it ;) ) section of the profile.ini
autoriderdab=0
That will make it possible to negotiate very tight corners and to do U-turns. Otherwise the virtual rider has that annoying habit of just kicking the ground whenever you go slow enough if he "feels" like you might be falling. Too bad Piboso didn't make dabbing assignable to a key (because I can see the situations where it can be helpful to use it) and didn't include it in the menu either, but at the very least HUGE thanks to him for making it an option in the .ini

cyborg chip

Copy! :)
Good tips bro.
I tested g27 at 40 degrees and maxangle at 20 degrees yesterday and it helped me.
i'll try this "aids" today!


passerBy

Errrm... No, I was suggesting different numbers :)
If you open any bike's .cfg file and look for the steer section, you'll most likely find this line there:
Lock = 25That means that steering lock for bikes in GPB to one side equals 25°.
So, for 1:1 steering use 50° in the Logitech profiler and maxangle of 25°.
Hope that helps :)

Chris_Beeves

It feels to me like it would take a whole lot of practice in ds2 to be able to compete with people using regular steering. I think the regular steering is too forgiving in too many ways.

I have been thinking about a solution that would enable the use of counter steering in any bike game. It should be possible to make a program that takes the input data and uses the max value turned to one side and keeps the "cursor" there (thinking of the little cross in windows calibration window). Any added force in that direction would be added and the opposite subtracted. For usability I think there should be some span in the middle where the cursor returns to center. Then take all this data and emulate a new controller in windows (something like vjoy would do)

If a windows program is too difficult, it shouldn't be impossible to make the function in the Arduino of my game controller.

I don't know if this would work well, but I'd like to try it. The problem seems to be finding programmers the both are interested and capable. Game controller programming isn't big on google (and I am the second most inexperienced programmer on earth)..

Regarding the maxangle, I was running something like 45 degrees until passerby told me otherwise. Under 25 is indeed the way to go if you want to make the steering feel realistic. I'm now at 20 with 40 set in Logitech Profile and the steering feels awesome (although the ffb in the Logitech DFGT is very weak, even more so in the middle).
I had to try..

HornetMaX

Quote from: Chris_Beeves on April 28, 2019, 04:52:35 amI have been thinking about a solution that would enable the use of counter steering in any bike game. It should be possible to make a program that takes the input data and uses the max value turned to one side and keeps the "cursor" there (thinking of the little cross in windows calibration window). Any added force in that direction would be added and the opposite subtracted. For usability I think there should be some span in the middle where the cursor returns to center. Then take all this data and emulate a new controller in windows (something like vjoy would do)

If a windows program is too difficult, it shouldn't be impossible to make the function in the Arduino of my game controller.

I don't know if this would work well, but I'd like to try it. The problem seems to be finding programmers the both are interested and capable. Game controller programming isn't big on google (and I am the second most inexperienced programmer on earth)..
I have totally not understood what your idea is (force ?!) and I'm also very doubtful about any attempt to "emulate" counter-steering.
But it's very likely you may want to have a look at GPB input plugin section.

Chris_Beeves

Quote from: HornetMaX on April 28, 2019, 11:47:32 amI have totally not understood what your idea is (force ?!) and I'm also very doubtful about any attempt to "emulate" counter-steering.
But it's very likely you may want to have a look at GPB input plugin section.
I can fully understand that, it is quite a vague concept that is quite hard to explain..
I am not sure either if it could work, but in my mind it is plausible!

No force feedback in this if that's what you mean.

GPB already has a good implementation for counter-steering in DS2 (DS1 I can't get along with).
My main goal with this idea is to make any motorcycle game work with counter-steering (including GPB default steering of course).
It will probably not have as real a feel like GPB+DS2, but probably a lot better than turn-left-to-lean-left functionality, which to me does not belong in a motorcycle simulator. Or the inverted steering "walkaround", which is a little better but feels a little silly. 

Being realistic, it will probably never happen since;
1 - I can't do it myself
2 - I can't seem to explain it to anyone
3 - Without a good explanation, it will be quite hard to persuade a programmer to give it a try
4 - Not many people value the function I guess

Buuuut.. It would be cool.. So I'll keep trying.  ;)
I had to try..