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MaxHUD plugin

Started by HornetMaX, September 26, 2013, 04:34:50 PM

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HornetMaX

@Deinner: it's doable, but I already hear the purists crying at another arcade-like feature.

Stout Johnson

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 07:29:56 AM
@Deinner: it's doable, but I already hear the purists crying at another arcade-like feature.

I consider myself a purist, but I would actually use this feature! It would compensate for the insufficient sound immersion in first person view, which makes it sometimes hard to determine how near other riders actually are.

If you should decide to implement this feature, I would prefer to have indicators showing where the other rider is (e.g. indicator on left bottom of screen if rider is coming from behind and trying to pass left) and the indicator color changing with proximity (e.g. <3m --> yellow;  <2m --> orange; < 1m --> light red; ; < 0,5m --> dark red).
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 11:23:00 AM
I consider myself a purist, but I would actually use this feature! It would compensate for the insufficient sound immersion in first person view, which makes it sometimes hard to determine how near other riders actually are.
But then the solution is either  better sound immersion or accept that that's an intrinsic difficulty of first person view.

Anyway, if there's enough interest, I'll have a look. First sight, I prefer the radar-like solution: your car/bike in the middle + the others within a configurable limit distance (e.g.3 / 5 / 10 m).

matty0l215

I ride first person all the time and after a while you can start to hear the difference. (It deffenetly needs work though!) Its been a while since ive hit anyone because i havent seen them. I just have to constantly look backwords :P

But i would like to see this in game, it certinaly would help spacial awareness. :D

teeds

This would fill a big hole in the 1st person opponent awareness problem, I would use it all the time until I can naturally look around myself in game, which will hopefully be the case within about 3 months  8)

HornetMaX

Quote from: teeds on January 04, 2016, 12:14:20 PM
I would use it all the time until I can naturally look around myself in game, which will hopefully be the case within about 3 months  8)
EDTracker ==> problem solved ?

Stout Johnson

January 04, 2016, 12:43:05 PM #291 Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:45:51 PM by Stout Johnson
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
But then the solution is either  better sound immersion or accept that that's an intrinsic difficulty of first person view.
For better sound immersion, we both know there is someone else responsible and looking at it realistically it is not on the priority list (if on any list at all for that matter). ;) I have to say, it is kind of frustrating to have to discuss these proposals, anytime I wish for something that helps me in first person view, trying to achieve a level of immersion that is similar to reality - be it a sound slider or now an indicator helping to determine other vehicles proximity. Especially if there are much clearer arcade features like 3rd person view, virtual pit boards, virtual mirrors in WRS and things like that. ::)

In real life, I have 3d sound available and I can pretty accurately tell where another bike is in reference to myself. In GPB the sound is very rough, only alternating between left and right sound source and assessing the distance of other riders is also only very rough compared to reality (as it has already been discussed here numerous times). I am riding in 1st person view in GPB for a long time now and I can estimate the position of other riders. But it is far from what I am able to do in real life. And waiting for it to be fixed is wishful thinking at the moment for sure. So any way to minimize this problem would be much appreciated.

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
Anyway, if there's enough interest, I'll have a look. First sight, I prefer the radar-like solution: your car/bike in the middle + the others within a configurable limit distance (e.g.3 / 5 / 10 m).
It is your call, of course. I just want to put into consideration that having just see pop up a colored marker into direction of the other incoming vehicles would make it easy to detect while being able to keep my eyes in the middle of the screen looking for the apex. It would make it much more natural. If I would have to look at a certain radar it would make it harder. But again, your call of course.
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

teeds

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 12:16:48 PM
EDTracker ==> problem solved ?

Tried that, no go as for me I can't get on with moving my head to change the view while moving my eyes to keep my view central. My tracker might now be a joystick at some point, but the previously mention soon to be with us device might cover that need too with eventual game support.


HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
I have to say, it is kind of frustrating to have to discuss these proposals, anytime I wish for something that helps me in first person view, trying to achieve a level of immersion that is similar to reality - be it a sound slider or now an indicator helping to determine other vehicles proximity.
Uh well ... OK then, I'll just code the features without any discussion, to avoid any further frustration.

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Especially if there are much clearer arcade features like 3rd person view, virtual pit boards, virtual mirrors in WRS and things like that. ::)
This is the point I don't get: some here complains about stuff that is too arcade and then the very same ask for arcade-like stuff, saying "there's other arcade stuff" as justification. Sounds wrong.

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
Anyway, if there's enough interest, I'll have a look. First sight, I prefer the radar-like solution: your car/bike in the middle + the others within a configurable limit distance (e.g.3 / 5 / 10 m).
It is your call, of course. I just want to put into consideration that having just see pop up a colored marker into direction of the other incoming vehicles would make it easy to detect while being able to keep my eyes in the middle of the screen looking for the apex. It would make it much more natural. If I would have to look at a certain radar it would make it harder. But again, your call of course.
Could be. I still think that as (in most cases) the mini-radar is in your filed of view (because the entire screen is), you can "keep an eye on it" without moving the focus away from the apex.
Likely, even putting the radar in the lower left (or right) corner would do it. But I'll consider the indicators too: in the image posted by Deinner there's a red triangle (top right) that seems to be an indicator for the car that is passing.

Quote from: teeds on January 04, 2016, 12:59:15 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 12:16:48 PM
EDTracker ==> problem solved ?
Tried that, no go as for me I can't get on with moving my head to change the view while moving my eyes to keep my view central.
You'll have to play with the yaw curves (in opentrack) to find something usable, but it's true it's not very natural.
Typically you have some sort of slow slope for small yaw movements (so that you can still look left/right naturally for small angles) and then an high slope so that when you reach that threshold, in-game you will look straight back. I can post you a screenshot of the curves I have, if needed.

Stout Johnson

January 04, 2016, 01:44:11 PM #294 Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 02:00:05 PM by Stout Johnson
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
Uh well ... OK then, I'll just code the features without any discussion, to avoid any further frustration.
Cool move, appreciate it :)

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Especially if there are much clearer arcade features like 3rd person view, virtual pit boards, virtual mirrors in WRS and things like that. ::)
This is the point I don't get: some here complains about stuff that is too arcade and then the very same ask for arcade-like stuff, saying "there's other arcade stuff" as justification. Sounds wrong.
Well not that hard to understand. I am only considering this visual helper because the sound engine of GPB is very deficient as it is at the moment. It shall help me make up for a problem that should not be there in the first place. If the sound engine will be perfect at some time, you won't find me here discussing this helper. I am an all-hardcore guy in general (don't mean that in relation to internet content :P). Other things like 3rd person view, virtual overlays etc are not helping with a deficiency. They are providing a view and an angle of view that simply is not there in real life and imo should not be there in a sim. And discussing a helper that is just there to help with a deficiency while not even mentioning/questioning 100%arcade stuff is the thing that always makes me shake my head.

I kind of understand if you are reluctant to implemement something that should not be needed in the first place. But since it is (unfortunately) needed in first person view, it would be a great thing to have until maybe sometimes the sound engine is more elaborate. So don't shoot the messenger ;)

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
But I'll consider the indicators too: in the image posted by Deinner there's a red triangle (top right) that seems to be an indicator for the car that is passing.
Yes, something like that would be perfect. It would allow to see it subconsciously from the corner of one's eye.

    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 01:44:11 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
Uh well ... OK then, I'll just code the features without any discussion, to avoid any further frustration.
Cool move, appreciate it :)
Some sarcasm went unnoticed I guess, but that's OK.

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 04, 2016, 01:44:11 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
But I'll consider the indicators too: in the image posted by Deinner there's a red triangle (top right) that seems to be an indicator for the car that is passing.
Yes, something like that would be perfect. It would allow to see it subconsciously from the corner of one's eye.
Do you mean the triangle/marker will be at fixed positions ? E.g. left/middle/right along the bottom of the screen ? What about if there are more than one vehicles close to you ?
In the pic above, it seems to me the triangle/marker moves around (either along the screen left/bottom/right borders or around a circle/ellipse).

Stout Johnson

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
Do you mean the triangle/marker will be at fixed positions ? E.g. left/middle/right along the bottom of the screen ? What about if there are more than one vehicles close to you ?
In the pic above, it seems to me the triangle/marker moves around (either along the screen left/bottom/right borders or around a circle/ellipse).
My personal notion:

  • area for the marker
    -if possible not fixed, but moving in relation to other vehicles; moving around like in the pic above
    -moving in the outer area of the screen
    -indicator not too big, not too small (maybe even size setting by user?), with a bit of transparency (maybe even transparency setting by user?)
    -if the indicator is moving over another overlay of your plugin, then the indicator should be 'on top'

  • numerous vehicles
    only display marker for nearest vehicle


Final note: I cannot really estimate how much work it is for you to code this. Please only do it, if it is somehow justified. I bet it will be much appreciated by the onboard guys, but it will probably not be used much by the 3rd person view majority (yes I do consider the onboard view fraction the minority, despite the recent poll here that seemed to suggest otherwise ;))
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

HornetMaX

It should be a quick one, something like 1h for a 1st implementation. Likely I will spend more time in trying it and figuring out what makes sense than in actually coding: finding a server with 2-3 players is not that easy these days ...

Napalm Nick

<chortle> sarcasm appreciated by this British sarcasm expert (lowest form of wit and all that haha!)

I think it would be a nice thing for 1st P view.  You know I am a bit hardcore but I have mellow edges.

My stance on this (if anyone gives a damn lol) is that a simulated GAME can never be 100% REAL.  As long as the main drive is physics REALITY then those bits that can NEVER be/are UNLIKELY to be/are not currently, simulated, can have artificial assistance. In this case, where good spacial awareness is limited I think a widget of sorts is OK.

My opinion (its what happens on forums, opinions and all that) and anyone is allowed to disagree 

Either way I think you know we all really appreciate your MaxStuff. ;)
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

teeds

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: teeds on January 04, 2016, 12:59:15 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 12:16:48 PM
EDTracker ==> problem solved ?
Tried that, no go as for me I can't get on with moving my head to change the view while moving my eyes to keep my view central.
You'll have to play with the yaw curves (in opentrack) to find something usable, but it's true it's not very natural.
Typically you have some sort of slow slope for small yaw movements (so that you can still look left/right naturally for small angles) and then an high slope so that when you reach that threshold, in-game you will look straight back. I can post you a screenshot of the curves I have, if needed.

Will have a play at some point to get the lean working as required, maybe get back to you then cheers. Think I'll need saturation at 30-40% and about a 10% deadzone, this possible?

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 04, 2016, 02:29:04 PM
Likely I will spend more time in trying it and figuring out what makes sense than in actually coding: finding a server with 2-3 players is not that easy these days ...

Just shout and I can be available to test with you if required on one evening, no problem, and i'm sure others would join too.



Only problem I have with the widget side of things is introducing new stuff that gives an advantage but is not available in real life. And yes, seeing the bike next to you is available in real life so I think we're good with this one.