(WIP)Mallory Park Track Surface Rebuild TEST...

[Klax75]

Thanks. This is the only way I am using GP Bikes now DST only. Minus the last Red Bulls Rookies race I'll go back to default. Everyone doesn't get to see the hundreds, thousands of falls and days, weeks of practice before I could start doing this.

Thanks for the support though. It's appreciated.

That was after about a hour, my first 11 laps were a slightly better. The helmet view laps, by then my right hand started to go numb. :/ lol

[HornetMaX]

Hiya. Is there an easy way I can change the downloaded track to the slippery version? I would really like to try it out..

Hi Tracey.

It's relatively easy to alter the grip levels of a track surface by renaming the track surface mesh file: There are 3 levels of grip defined by names of, TRKASPH, TRKBASPH, and TRKCASPH.

There will only be one online version due to the process of registering a track, but while in pre release I will create the different grip level versions for the community to test and vote on for which version of grip they would like the online version to be. I cannot be fairer than that. 

I will post links for the different version of track surface grip later today.

You don' t need to do that Hawk. The properties of the 3 asphalt "materials" are in the bike's tire files.
For the 500cc rear soft tire (for example) you have the file m_rr500_94_r_soft.tyre:

Code Select Expand


type = bike
id = M RR 500 94 R Soft
R0 = 0.300000
Fz0 = 1000.000000
p_Cx1 = 1.600000
p_Dx1 = 1.650000
p_Dx2 = -0.100000
p_Ex1 = 0.000000
p_Ex2 = 0.000000
p_Ex3 = 0.000000
p_Ex4 = 0.000000
p_Kx1 = 30.000000
p_Kx2 = 0.000000
p_Kx3 = 0.000000
r_Bx1 = 12.000000
r_Bx2 = -10.000000
r_Bx3 = 0.000000
r_Cx1 = 1.200000
p_Cy1 = 1.200000
p_Cy2 = 0.600000
p_Dy1 = 1.650000
p_Dy2 = -0.100000
p_Dy3 = 0.000000
p_Ey1 = 0.000000
p_Ey2 = 0.000000
p_Ey3 = 0.000000
p_Ey4 = 0.000000
p_Ey5 = 0.000000
p_Ky1 = 20.000000
p_Ky2 = 1.000000
p_Ky3 = 0.010000
p_Ky4 = 0.000000
p_Ky5 = 0.000000
p_Ky6 = 3.000000
p_Ky7 = 0.000000
r_By1 = 7.000000
r_By2 = 4.000000
r_By3 = 0.000000
r_Cy1 = 1.050000
r_Hy1 = 0.000000
q_Bz1 = 9.000000
q_Cz1 = 1.100000
q_Dz1 = 0.100000
q_Dz8 = 0.100000
q_Ez1 = -10.000000
s_Sz1 = 0.000000
q_sy1 = 0.013000
compound0
{
name = Soft
OptTemperature = 70.000000
BelowTempFactor = 1.000000
AboveTempFactor = 1.000000
HeatingFactorLong = 0.000400
HeatingFactorLat = 0.000400
HeatingFactorRoll = 0.004000
WearRate = 0.000250
NumKeys = 2
Key0 = 0.900000, 0.980000
Key1 = 1.000000, 0.800000
asphalt1
{
dry_grip = 0.980000
wet_grip = 0.700000
max_wet = 0.500000
curve_type = 1
resistance_dry = 1.000000
resistance_wet = 3.000000
}
asphalt2
{
dry_grip = 0.970000
wet_grip = 0.700000
max_wet = 0.500000
curve_type = 1
resistance_dry = 1.000000
resistance_wet = 3.000000
}
asphalt3
{
dry_grip = 0.960000
wet_grip = 0.700000
max_wet = 0.500000
curve_type = 1
resistance_dry = 1.000000
resistance_wet = 3.000000
}
concrete
{
dry_grip = 0.990000
wet_grip = 0.700000
max_wet = 0.500000
curve_type = 1
resistance_dry = 1.000000
resistance_wet = 3.000000
}
grass
{
dry_grip = 0.500000
wet_grip = 0.300000
max_wet = 1.000000
curve_type = 0
resistance_dry = 0.500000
resistance_wet = 0.300000
}
sand
{
dry_grip = 0.300000
wet_grip = 0.200000
max_wet = 1.000000
curve_type = 0
resistance_dry = 20.000000
resistance_wet = 30.000000
}
kerb
{
dry_grip = 0.960000
wet_grip = 0.700000
max_wet = 0.500000
curve_type = 1
resistance_dry = 1.000000
resistance_wet = 3.000000
}
soil
{
dry_grip = 0.550000
wet_grip = 0.250000
max_wet = 1.000000
curve_type = 0
resistance_dry = 3.000000
resistance_wet = 5.000000
}
paint
{
dry_grip = 0.960000
wet_grip = 0.700000
max_wet = 0.500000
curve_type = 1
resistance_dry = 1.000000
resistance_wet = 3.000000
}
}
Name = Soft
Compound0 = Soft
Compound1 = Soft
Compound2 = Soft
OptimalPressure = 180.000000
SpringBase = 62000
SpringFactor = 350
Damper = 1410
Mass = 15
Inertia = 0.55, 0.3, 0.3
Radius = 0.305
TorusRadius = 0.11
Width = 60
RadiusRPS = 0.0001


If you look in the compound section (only one compound for this specific tire, some tires can have two), you have sub-sec tions for asphalt1, asphalt2 and asphalt3, they correspond to your surface names TRKASPH, TRKBASPH, and TRKCASPH. The relevant parameter is dry_grip and it is set to 0.98, 0.97 and 0.96 respectively.

So, bottom line: if you want to try a more slippery track (any track you want), just edit the tire file and replace 0.98 in asphalt1 with 0.97 or 0.96 (or whatever you want).

WARNINGs:

• if you modify the file then you won't be able to join online servers using that bike (as you tampered with the physics). Just restore the original content. Personally I do this:from bikes.pkz I only extract the file I'm interested into, I put it in the right folder and play with it. Once I want to revert, I just delete the file. Even better solution: modify the bike .cfg and add a new tire file.
• Be careful to modify the right file (front/rear, quali/soft/hard/wet) and the right compound and asphalt.

As a side note, the hard tire of the 500 has 0.97 as grip so it behaves more or less (there are other differences) as the soft tire on the slippery asphalt.

MaX.

[Hawk]

@Max: That is interesting reading and very useful information, thanks for that Max, It will be great to give this a test and see just how slippery it can go. Lol!

The only downside with doing it that way is, as you say, we wouldn't be able to go online unless the server had the altered physics bikes installed? Hmm, maybe one server could be used for this? Maybe we could call it the, "Classic Bike Server"? 

There must be some data somewhere on the grip levels and characteristics of the old tyres that were used, "back in the good old days", when two strokes ruled the world.   


Hawk.

[Hawk]

@Max: What are these settings for in the tyre model file:

• curve_type = 1
        resistance_dry = 1.000000
        resistance_wet = 3.000000

[HornetMaX]

@Max: That is interesting reading and very useful information, thanks for that Max, It will be great to give this a test and see just how slippery it can go. Lol!

The only downside with doing it that way is, as you say, we wouldn't be able to go online unless the server had the altered physics bikes installed? Hmm, maybe one server could be used for this? Maybe we could call it the, "Classic Bike Server"? 

You will be able to go online if the server uses exactly the same files (probably the times won't count in the GPB stats page though).

The proper solution is to create a "copy" of the Varese bike, rename it to "varese_v594_slippery" and make it available for download.
You'll need to:

• extract the varese_v594 and rename it to "varese_v594_slippery"
• inside the folder, rename the .ini and the .cfg file to "varese_v594_slippery" .ini and .cfg
• in the .ini, change the bike name and short name
• in the .cfg, change the bike ID.

If you want to provide additional tire types you would have to take one file (e.g. front soft, m_rr500_94_f_soft.tyre), make a copy of it, rename it to something and change it as you want (most likely, the only thing you wan to play with is the dry_grip in the compound0 / asphalt1 section).
The you will need to add a tyreN section (e.g. tyre4, as 0-3 are already there) in the .cfg file, referencing your .tyre file.

Not sure how clear all this sounds but I'm sure you can sort it out.

@Max: What are these settings for in the tyre model file:

• curve_type = 1
        resistance_dry = 1.000000
        resistance_wet = 3.000000

These are the scaling factors (for dry and wet, respectively) of the Pacejka model for the rolling resistance momentum. W00T !!11 

Said in comprehensible words, they influence how much resistance to rolling the tire has (actually they scale a more complex curve that depends on other parameters like the normal load on the tire and the longitudinal force currently developed by the tire, even if this last one is not used by GPB). Anyway, bottom line is: the higher the coefficient, the more power will be eaten up to make the tire roll instead of to make the bike accelerate. Don't play with them, no real interest.

MaX.

[Hawk]

Hi Max.

Thanks for the explanations. I've already tested the tyre model grip and found  a pretty good setting.... It really does make for an interesting ride on the 500cc bike with good throttle control needed, as it should be for those classic 500cc bikes I reckon.  Now you've got to really control the bike as it wants to buck and kick you down the road. Hehe
I've only altered the rear soft dry tyre at the moment, but I'm experimenting, and your suggestion for having a specific "Slippery" version for download is a great idea! I'll see if I can sort something out with the use of your info here. 

The surprising thing is that the lap times don't seem to suffer at all, in fact I posted my fastest lap around "Mallory Park 1978".

Hopefully we'll be able to get a "Classic Racing" server up and running for some online practice and eventual classic events if someone is willing to host? Anyone? 

Thanks for your help Max... Appreciated as always mate. 

[HornetMaX]

The surprising thing is that the lap times don't seem to suffer at all, in fact I posted my fastest lap around "Mallory Park 1978".

That's very surprising ... it probably means you weren't using all the available grip before (not that it's easy, especially on the 500). I see no other explanation.

MaX.

[Hawk]

The surprising thing is that the lap times don't seem to suffer at all, in fact I posted my fastest lap around "Mallory Park 1978".

That's very surprising ... it probably means you weren't using all the available grip before (not that it's easy, especially on the 500). I see no other explanation.

MaX.

No other explanation except the fact that you have to ride smoother and have better throttle control which would surely lead to better lap times? That's my deduction anyway. 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

No other explanation except the fact that you have to ride smoother and have better throttle control which would surely lead to better lap times? That's my deduction anyway. 

But then you should be able to do the same lap time with the more grippy tires too.

How much did you lower the grip ?

Max.

[Hawk]

No other explanation except the fact that you have to ride smoother and have better throttle control which would surely lead to better lap times? That's my deduction anyway. 

But then you should be able to do the same lap time with the more grippy tires too.

How much did you lower the grip ?

Max.

I'm not sure about that? I personally think the slippery tyre settings suit the power characteristics of the 2 stroke engine as you can rear wheel steer coming out of corners which allow you to get the power on earlier, whereas if your tyres are stuck to the ground your often forever waiting for the bike to come around before you can start to accelerate on the exits. Does that make sense? Probably not.... but that's the way I see it. LOL 

Anyway, you'll probably be gobsmacked when I tell you that I set the rear soft at 0.70 before I started to get the characteristics of what I'd think are getting there, after all, on a GP 500cc 2 stroke, I'm sure you shouldn't be able to whack your throttle open in a corner without the back end spinning out, which at this moment in time you certainly can do in GP Bikes. It should be a balancing act with the throttle in a corner between just right and too much that you spin out that rear tyre. No?

Anyway, I'm going to experiment more to get it just right, or what I consider just right... but I'll probably do the experimenting tomorrow as I'm working on Mallory right now. 

BTW.... You were right when you told me that I'd be spending more time working on modding GP Bikes than playing it. What did you say to me at the time? "Welcome to the club" I think it was.... Cheers! Lol

[HornetMaX]

Wow !! 0.70 is the grip of a slick tire (e.g. quali) on the wet ... hmm ... can't be right, it'd mean you're faster with a slick quali tire on the wet than with a quali tire on the dry ?! 

MaX.

[Hawk]

Wow !! 0.70 is the grip of a slick tire (e.g. quali) on the wet ... hmm ... can't be right, it'd mean you're faster with a slick quali tire on the wet than with a quali tire on the dry ?! 

MaX.

Yeah, sorry!!... My mistake Max.... It's 0.87.  Hehe!!

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

OK, it's a bit less scary, but still scary

MaX.

[Hawk]

@Max: I'm getting a little off topic here, but anyway.... Just wanted to ask you if it is possible to add more gear ratio for the 500 cc 2 stroke bikes, as I've noticed that on tracks with slow hairpin type corners the bike could do with being able to lower(is it lower ratio or higher needed for tight corners to keep the revs up?) the 1st gear ratio more than it is allowed at this time? If it's possible and you can show me how to do it I would like to do a test to see how well it will work out. 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

@Max: I'm getting a little off topic here, but anyway.... Just wanted to ask you if it is possible to add more gear ratio for the 500 cc 2 stroke bikes, as I've noticed that on tracks with slow hairpin type corners the bike could do with being able to lower(is it lower ratio or higher needed for tight corners to keep the revs up?) the 1st gear ratio more than it is allowed at this time? If it's possible and you can show me how to do it I would like to do a test to see how well it will work out. 

In GPB it is possible, in the bike's .cfg file:

Code Select Expand

gearbox
{
gearing
{
ratio0 = 20, 39
ratio1 = 21, 38
ratio2 = 22, 37
ratio3 = 23, 36
ratio4 = 24, 35
ratio5 = 25, 34
ratio6 = 26, 33
ratio7 = 27, 32
ratio8 = 28, 31
ratio9 = 29, 30
ratio10 = 30, 29
ratio11 = 31, 28
ratio12 = 32, 27
}

NumGears = 6
Gear0 = 0
Gear1 = 2
Gear2 = 4
Gear3 = 6
Gear4 = 8
Gear5 = 10
Add a ratio before ratio0 (you'll have to name-shift all the others).

I don't know if in reality it is possible to get a shorter one not if it makes practical sense: if there's too much difference betwen 1st and 2nd that's not good on the track.

Did you change the final ratio first ?

MaX.