Just a thought, but for those of us who like to ride 2 stroke bikes, and would like to fairly compete with the modern MotoGP bikes in organised race events, how's about creating a 750cc 2 stroke "X" Class of bikeMOD with the required horsepower and speed to fairly compete with the modern 4 stroke bikes/bikeMODS. Us 2 stroke fans could then ride them against the 4 stroke riders in the MotoGP race events then. ;D 8)
It shouldn't be too difficult to upgrade the 500cc 2 stroke bikes/engines to 750cc with the required horsepower........ What do you guys think?
Personally I think that would be GREAT! ;D 8) 8)
Hawk.
+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That would be awesome to ride a 750cc 2 stroke machine from hell! :D
So a modern 2 Smoke Moto GP spec machine....
Could be interesting ;D
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 08, 2016, 07:23:40 PM
So a modern 2 Smoke Moto GP spec machine....
Could be interesting ;D
I would like to see some of the big factories coming out with one of those! I think Honda/Yamaha could build a mean machine!
It will be interesting to see the Suter 500cc machine at Isle of Man, surely a machine to keep an eye out for as a 2 stroke lover.
140kg 625cc V5 260hp two stroke with the RSA 250 tyres :D
>Hawk
I thought a moment you were referring to the H2 or the GT750.
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on April 08, 2016, 08:44:21 PM
>Hawk
I thought a moment you were referring to the H2 or the GT750.
Lol.... I remember those bikes well.... they were real classics! Look rather dated now though. Lol ;D 8)
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 08, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on April 08, 2016, 08:44:21 PM
>Hawk
I thought a moment you were referring to the H2 or the GT750.
Lol.... I remember those bikes well.... they were real classics! Look rather dated now though. Lol ;D 8)
Hawk.
And not sure we can make those bike keep up with the MotoGP bikes?? then they need a rather insane improvement at least! :D wings and jet engines maybe?
Edit: Like this maybe :P https://www.google.dk/search?q=Motorbike+with+wings+and+jet+engine&biw=1600&bih=755&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpk4H9-f_LAhVDIpoKHS5tBvYQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=y51PoRQcVXjEWM%3A
Quote from: Meyer#12 on April 08, 2016, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 08, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on April 08, 2016, 08:44:21 PM
>Hawk
I thought a moment you were referring to the H2 or the GT750.
Lol.... I remember those bikes well.... they were real classics! Look rather dated now though. Lol ;D 8)
Hawk.
And not sure we can make those bike keep up with the MotoGP bikes?? then they need a rather insane improvement at least! :D wings and jet engines maybe?
Edit: Like this maybe :P https://www.google.dk/search?q=Motorbike+with+wings+and+jet+engine&biw=1600&bih=755&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpk4H9-f_LAhVDIpoKHS5tBvYQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=y51PoRQcVXjEWM%3A
Sorry to go off topic, but Meyer you missed a beauty of a bike :P
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/0f/e6/410fe66c551ca5c11e1456dc780fa04d.jpg)
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 08, 2016, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: Meyer#12 on April 08, 2016, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 08, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on April 08, 2016, 08:44:21 PM
>Hawk
I thought a moment you were referring to the H2 or the GT750.
Lol.... I remember those bikes well.... they were real classics! Look rather dated now though. Lol ;D 8)
Hawk.
And not sure we can make those bike keep up with the MotoGP bikes?? then they need a rather insane improvement at least! :D wings and jet engines maybe?
Edit: Like this maybe :P https://www.google.dk/search?q=Motorbike+with+wings+and+jet+engine&biw=1600&bih=755&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpk4H9-f_LAhVDIpoKHS5tBvYQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=y51PoRQcVXjEWM%3A
Sorry to go off topic, but Meyer you missed a beauty of a bike :P
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/0f/e6/410fe66c551ca5c11e1456dc780fa04d.jpg)
True! we might have gone little off topic haha! :D and yeah i missed that :P there also was a rather Nice Hayabusa with jet engine and wings :P
Back to topic, i would really want to race a 750cc that could keep up with the MotoGP bikes, would be awesome!! :) we just have to make sure they can last race distance haha
This is a sim and MOD bikes can be howeva you want them. Just need a good modder to make the specs right. I cant see there being any problem doing it at all. It might not be 100% realistic, but it would be fun. Is it not all about fun in the first place???
DD
QuoteLol.... I remember those bikes well.... they were real classics! Look rather dated now though. Lol ;D 8)
Hawk.
Made me want to try samples mixing again. :P
Samples Mixing Test - ModDB (http://www.moddb.com/members/wh1t34gl3sas/videos/gpbikes-samples-mixing-test)
Too bad the varese's samples don't have more rattles, i could probably go way further with such an effect.
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on April 08, 2016, 11:10:44 PM
QuoteLol.... I remember those bikes well.... they were real classics! Look rather dated now though. Lol ;D 8)
Hawk.
Made me want to try samples mixing again. :P
Samples Mixing Test - ModDB (http://www.moddb.com/members/wh1t34gl3sas/videos/gpbikes-samples-mixing-test)
Too bad the varese's samples don't have more rattles, i could probably go way further with such an effect.
Very nice try mate.... It's getting there! ;D 8)
I always love the sound of that Kawasaki triple, it had a very unique tone to it with the rattles too as you said.... Loved it! ;D
This should bring back memories(you can hear those characteristic rattles. ;D ):
https://www.youtube.com/v/YiJb4AWeG1I&nohtml5=False
Enjoy! ;) 8)
Hawk.
(http://forum.motonline-france.com/images/smilies/smil43c0083d41e76.gif)(http://forum.motonline-france.com/images/smilies/smil43c0083d41e76.gif)(http://forum.motonline-france.com/images/smilies/smil43c0083d41e76.gif)
Nice try on the sound, sounds very good to me :)
And yeah, had it's very own sound, great sound the Kawa Triple!
Let's make it a 1000cc 2s, so that you can teach those 4s a lesson for good.
P.S.
If I were you I would just take the varese and give it more power and better tyres.
With the same tyres as the 990 plus the weight advantage and some extra power, it could compete easily.
I'd expect it to eat the tyres faster, which would just be like in reality. But you could tweak that too, so that it can be superior all around and you'll be finally happy :)
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 04:58:35 PM
Let's make it a 1000cc 2s, so that you can teach those 4s a lesson for good.
P.S.
If I were you I would just take the varese and give it more power and better tyres.
With the same tyres as the 990 plus the weight advantage and some extra power, it could compete easily.
I'd expect it to eat the tyres faster, which would just be like in reality. But you could tweak that too, so that it can be superior all around and you'll be finally happy :)
Don't tempt me, Max! Hehe ;D
No but seriously Max, all I'd like to see is a 2 stroke bike as if it had been developed through the years till now which could compete on equal terms with the current MotoGP 4 stroke bikes, hence the "X" classification.... The aim isn't to give the 4 strokes a good walloping, very tempting as that would be. Lol ;D
Same top speeds as the 4 strokes but with 2 stroke characteristics, that's all mate. ;) 8)
Hawk.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 04:58:35 PM
Let's make it a 1000cc 2s, so that you can teach those 4s a lesson for good.
P.S.
If I were you I would just take the varese and give it more power and better tyres.
With the same tyres as the 990 plus the weight advantage and some extra power, it could compete easily.
I'd expect it to eat the tyres faster, which would just be like in reality. But you could tweak that too, so that it can be superior all around and you'll be finally happy :)
Surely it would use a modern chassis design. So using the 990/moto gp bikes etc. as a base. also giving it modern electronics would make it rid able :P
Or why don't we just stick a turbo'ed 6 cylinder with a supercharger (thats right, BOTH!) in a 125 chassis and call it done :P ;D
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 05:16:52 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 04:58:35 PM
Let's make it a 1000cc 2s, so that you can teach those 4s a lesson for good.
P.S.
If I were you I would just take the varese and give it more power and better tyres.
With the same tyres as the 990 plus the weight advantage and some extra power, it could compete easily.
I'd expect it to eat the tyres faster, which would just be like in reality. But you could tweak that too, so that it can be superior all around and you'll be finally happy :)
Surely it would use a modern chassis design. So using the 990/moto gp bikes etc. as a base. also giving it modern electronics would make it rid able :P
Or why don't we just stick a turbo'ed 6 cylinder with a supercharger (thats right, BOTH!) in a 125 chassis and call it done :P ;D
Formula 1 engine
Quote from: Boerenlater on April 09, 2016, 05:31:41 PM
Formula 1 engine
Excelent idea ;D
But I have tried messing with the 500 chassis, increasing the power (but about 1.2x stock power ish...) adding the 1000cc tyres and finally adding tcs, anti wheelie (this really helps) and engine breaking control (not that 2 strokes really have engine breaking)
It's a fun bike to ride but it struggles to get some high lean angles :-\ but with the lean it does get it's as solid as a rock!
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on April 09, 2016, 05:31:41 PM
Formula 1 engine
Excelent idea ;D
But I have tried messing with the 500 chassis, increasing the power (but about 1.2x stock power ish...) adding the 1000cc tyres and finally adding tcs, anti wheelie (this really helps) and engine breaking control (not that 2 strokes really have engine breaking)
It's a fun bike to ride but it struggles to get some high lean angles :-\ but with the lean it does get it's as solid as a rock!
COUGH! COUCH! CHOKE! :o :o
TCS, anti-wheelie, EB! Sod that electronic crap.... These will be
real racing bikes not the modern electronic controlled rubbish! What are you trying to do Matty, give me a heart attack! Hehe ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 05:16:52 PMalso giving it modern electronics would make it rid able :P
>:(
IMO, the two strokes of this "X Class" should have a bit of an physical advantage (power, weight) but they should be harder to ride.
If you start adding anti-wheelie and traction control (and engine brake :o) it will basically just ride like the four stroke bikes in GPB with low engine brake setting.
YOU SAID SOMETHING TO FAIRLY COMPETE WITH MODERN MOTO GP BIKES :o
This would require modern electronics... it's not a question of weather its a true riding machine :P
Anyway, after fiddling more (WITH ELECTRONICS :P) i've managed to get better handling by getting the 990 wheels on the bike, it's certainly sorted the lean issue.
Now trying to get the swing arm to work...
Quote from: vin97 on April 09, 2016, 06:42:44 PM
IMO, the two strokes of this "X Class" should have a bit of an physical advantage (power, weight) but they should be harder to ride.
Why just a bit, let's give them a huge advantage. Sounds legit :) if only people would have kept investing in 2s they would be amaaaaazing right now ;)
Quote from: vin97 on April 09, 2016, 06:42:44 PM
If you start adding anti-wheelie and traction control (and engine brake :o) it will basically just ride like the four stroke bikes in GPB with low engine brake setting.
No need for engine brake control on 2 strikes likely.
But please go forward and take the varese power curve, increase it by how much you want, and then ride it with no traction control.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 07:01:00 PM
Quote from: vin97 on April 09, 2016, 06:42:44 PM
IMO, the two strokes of this "X Class" should have a bit of an physical advantage (power, weight) but they should be harder to ride.
Why just a bit, let's give them a huge advantage. Sounds legit :) if only people would have kept investing in 2s they would be amaaaaazing right now ;)
As I wrote, a 625cc V5 (260-270hp) in a V4 chassis (130-140kg) should be enough of an advantage. And this could've been done 20 years ago. (http://www.swissauto.com/e/motor/projekt_techdata.jsp?ID_Display=20000D)
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 07:01:00 PM
But please go forward and take the varese power curve, increase it by how much you want, and then ride it with no traction control.
As long as the gearing is set up so that the engine always remains in it's powerband, it shouldn't be that hard.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 06:57:23 PMThis would require modern electronics... it's not a question of weather its a true riding machine :P
Ah, well, then everybody will just end up using the bike that's faster.
If you scrap the electronics, it would require different skills and/or riding styles and it would make the "X class" interesting because not everybody could take advantage of the two stroke's potential.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 06:57:23 PM
YOU SAID SOMETHING TO FAIRLY COMPETE WITH MODERN MOTO GP BIKES :o
This would require modern electronics... it's not a question of weather its a true riding machine :P
Anyway, after fiddling more (WITH ELECTRONICS :P) i've managed to get better handling by getting the 990 wheels on the bike, it's certainly sorted the lean issue.
Now trying to get the swing arm to work...
When I said to fairly compete I mean top speed down the straights not electronics, we don't want the same characteristics as the modern MotoGP 4 stroke bikes, we want a good 2 stroke characteristic bike were like in the old days it was down to true rider control and skill to keep control of the bike, not a twist and go machine like they are today. :P
The lean issue will be down to the extra grip of the 990 tyres allowing more angle of lean from the virtual rider. You could achieve the same on the 500 tyres I guess by increasing the grip levels of those tyres too. ;)
But FFS get rid of those crappy electronic controls. ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 07:18:48 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 06:57:23 PM
YOU SAID SOMETHING TO FAIRLY COMPETE WITH MODERN MOTO GP BIKES :o
This would require modern electronics... it's not a question of weather its a true riding machine :P
Anyway, after fiddling more (WITH ELECTRONICS :P) i've managed to get better handling by getting the 990 wheels on the bike, it's certainly sorted the lean issue.
Now trying to get the swing arm to work...
When I said to fairly compete I mean top speed down the straights not electronics, we don't want the same characteristics as the modern MotoGP 4 stroke bikes, we want a good 2 stroke characteristic bike were like in the old days it was down to true rider control and skill to keep control of the bike, not a twist and go machine like they are today. :P
The lean issue will be down to the extra grip of the 990 tyres allowing more angle of lean from the virtual rider. You could achieve the same on the 500 tyres I guess by increasing the grip levels of those tyres too. ;)
But FFS get rid of those crappy electronic controls. ;D
Hawk.
Totally agree Hawk! Electronics is not needed :P
(http://i.imgur.com/xR8InwV.jpg)
Its got electronics, until i can sort the swing arm :P
In this configuration, this bike handles okay, its super stable but it struggles to turn quickly (there's plenty of lean now but long swingarm makes it sluggish i think)
Coincidentally, how do you move the swing arm in bikeED, it has a fit every time i try to get it right :-[
Quotewe want a good 2 stroke characteristic bike were like in the old days it was down to true rider control and skill to keep control of the bike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiYIS7fL3Wc
Fun fun fun. ::)
Can l try that as is matty? lm ineresed how it would ride with my sysrem.
DD
Quote from: vin97 on April 09, 2016, 07:12:30 PM
As I wrote, a 625cc V5 (260-270hp) in a V4 chassis (130-140kg) should be enough of an advantage. And this could've been done 20 years ago. (http://www.swissauto.com/e/motor/projekt_techdata.jsp?ID_Display=20000D)
As I said: just take the varese, give it 270bhp and the 990 tyres and call it the "varese 2016". All the rest is irrelevant (v5, v4 or v6, 500cc, 625c, 750cc): you're creating a fantasy bike anyway.
It's a 5min job.
Hows it a 5min job. Tell me so I can try if it is only editing files?
DD
Never done modding lol
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 09, 2016, 08:01:24 PM
Hows it a 5min job. Tell me so I can try if it is only editing files?
DD
Never done modding lol
Using the modding tools, changing engine values is a 5 min job (well 1 min if your not fussy about the curve)
but doing what I'm doing has taken a 2-3 hours now :P (most of that is trial and error)
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 08:08:01 PM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 09, 2016, 08:01:24 PM
Hows it a 5min job. Tell me so I can try if it is only editing files?
DD
Never done modding lol
Using the modding tools, changing engine values is a 5 min job (well 1 min if your not fussy about the curve)
but doing what I'm doing has taken a 2-3 hours now :P (most of that is trial and error)
Yes, getting the power curve correct on the 2 stroke bikes is vital to get that narrow power-band feel of the big racing 2 stroke engines. :)
BTW: Please give it some "
Throttle Blip". Hate to hear the 2 stroke bikes changing down gears without any throttle blip. Please take note Piboso for the Varase 500. ::)
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on April 09, 2016, 07:30:44 PM
Quotewe want a good 2 stroke characteristic bike were like in the old days it was down to true rider control and skill to keep control of the bike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiYIS7fL3Wc
Fun fun fun. ::)
Indeed! ;D
The first 1:45 of the documentary says it all..... That was what the real skill of riding 2 stroke racing bikes fast was all about! ;D 8)
Hawk.
V750 is a blast, had to turn OFF electronics to try it lol.
Would love to try the 750 neck to neck with 500 and 990 online hehe
DD
Have to make a special V750X paintwork lol
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 08:20:44 PMBTW: Please give it some "Throttle Blip". Hate to hear the 2 stroke bikes changing down gears without any throttle blip. Please take note Piboso for the Varase 500. ::)
Manual clutch??
Only ride with manual clutch hate auto clutch shit lol
DD
I've made a change (hopfully for the better..) to your version DD
the bike has now got auto blip (yes, i know, more electronics :P) but it does add another level to the riding ;D
I've got a video uploading now of a lap at Victoria.
Quote from: vin97 on April 09, 2016, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 08:20:44 PMBTW: Please give it some "Throttle Blip". Hate to hear the 2 stroke bikes changing down gears without any throttle blip. Please take note Piboso for the Varase 500. ::)
Manual clutch??
If your fully manual then you would expect to blip the throttle yourself, but if not then that's what the "Blip Throttle" feature is for when changing down gears. Currently the bikes don't use it for some reason. ::)
DD could easily blip his throttle manually because he's using a real bike controller, but to do it on a game pad or joystick is very awkward to do unless you have a stick totally dedicated to throttle control alone(that would be a waste of a single control element on your gamepad).
Hawk.
https://www.youtube.com/v/OCuVP9tNEyo&feature=youtu.be
This version of the bike is a-
"750cc v4" 2 Stroke with ~230 BHP & ~130 Nm, ~130KG in weight, using the Varese v594 chassis (modified Geometry), RC990 Wheels, tyres and swingarm, added ECU controls (Traction Control, Engine Breaking Control and Anti-Wheel, although turned off for video purposes to prove it's rideable) but no variable mapping currently.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 09:15:07 PM
I've made a change (hopfully for the better..) to your version DD
the bike has now got auto blip (yes, i know, more electronics :P) but it does add another level to the riding ;D
I've got a video uploading now of a lap at Victoria.
Only "
a" lap! Couldn't you give us 2 or 3 laps at least. Hehe! ;D
Edit: Any chance of a 3rd person view? A viewer cannot can't get any feel for what the bike is doing in 1st person view. :P
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 09:21:28 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 09:15:07 PM
I've made a change (hopfully for the better..) to your version DD
the bike has now got auto blip (yes, i know, more electronics :P) but it does add another level to the riding ;D
I've got a video uploading now of a lap at Victoria.
Only "a" lap! Couldn't you give us 2 or 3 laps at least. Hehe! ;D
Hawk.
I have a 80kb/s upload... did you want a video this week... :P ;D
SWEET................................
I will make a vid in the morning if I got time
Manu vs Meyer is taking foreva lol
DD
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 09:23:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 09:21:28 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 09:15:07 PM
I've made a change (hopfully for the better..) to your version DD
the bike has now got auto blip (yes, i know, more electronics :P) but it does add another level to the riding ;D
I've got a video uploading now of a lap at Victoria.
Only "a" lap! Couldn't you give us 2 or 3 laps at least. Hehe! ;D
Hawk.
I have a 80kb/s upload... did you want a video this week... :P ;D
I know. Lol
Youtube is notorious for snail-pace upload speeds. ::)
Hawk.
Looks great mate!! :)
Haha looking forward for your video DD and i see it takes forever with the GP15 race video ;) but take your time, always worth the wait for your videos!
Looking forward for the 2 stroke "X" mod ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/PZ96A76.jpg)
This version of the bike is a-
"750cc v4" 2 Stroke with ~230 BHP & ~130 Nm, ~130KG in weight, using the Varese v594 chassis (modified Geometry), RC990 Wheels, tyres and swingarm, added ECU controls (Traction Control, Engine Breaking Control and Anti-Wheel, although turned off for video purposes to prove it's rideable) but no variable mapping currently.
Yeah Meyer your battle with Manu is 60GB and 30 seperate videos to play with lol. Down to the last 4 major compilations then final cut. About 15hours work in all lol.
About 5 hour upload as well
DD
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 09:17:30 PMbut to do it on a game pad or joystick is very awkward to do unless you have a stick totally dedicated to throttle control alone(that would be a waste of a single control element on your gamepad).
While a gamepad with two additional analog triggers would be optimal, a normal gamepad works for me, too.
I have steering on the horizontal axis of the left stick and rear brake + clutch on the vertical axis. Throttle on right trigger, brake on the left.
Quote from: Meyer#12 on April 09, 2016, 09:32:32 PM
Looks great mate!! :)
Haha looking forward for your video DD and i see it takes forever with the GP15 race video ;) but take your time, always worth the wait for your videos!
Looking forward for the 2 stroke "X" mod ;)
It would be good to test Matty's experiment, but I think Pib would have a fit if it was released. We know how sensitive Pib can be when using his models for projects.
We need to work from a bike model we have permission to use for a release version. :-\
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 09:46:17 PM
It would be good to test Matty's experiment, but I think Pib would have a fit if it was released. We know how sensitive Pib can be when using his models for projects.
We need to work from a bike model we have permission to use for a release version. :-\
Hawk.
This....
Also to Piboso, if you want me to stop using your models, just say and they're gone. I only used your models were only used as they are the best current example of the 500 and GP bike
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 09:46:17 PM
Quote from: Meyer#12 on April 09, 2016, 09:32:32 PM
Looks great mate!! :)
Haha looking forward for your video DD and i see it takes forever with the GP15 race video ;) but take your time, always worth the wait for your videos!
Looking forward for the 2 stroke "X" mod ;)
It would be good to test Matty's experiment, but I think Pib would have a fit if it was released. We know how sensitive Pib can be when using his models for projects.
We need to work from a bike model we have permission to use for a release version. :-\
Hawk.
True!
Maybe we should talk to JC about using his Honda 500??
And DD, that is quite a lot! I see why it takes some time lol! I guess it will be a great video then and with great commentating from you right??
Quote from: vin97 on April 09, 2016, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 09, 2016, 09:17:30 PMbut to do it on a game pad or joystick is very awkward to do unless you have a stick totally dedicated to throttle control alone(that would be a waste of a single control element on your gamepad).
While a gamepad with two additional analog triggers would be optimal, a normal gamepad works for me, too.
I have steering on the horizontal axis of the left stick and rear brake + clutch on the vertical axis. Throttle on right trigger, brake on the left.
Exactly what I'm saying: With your left stick controlling the clutch + rear brake as well as steering I'm sure your couldn't reliably dip your clutch in sync with blipping the throttle every time you need to without operating the rear brake or steering controls too to a certain degree? If you say you could then your a better man than I am for sure. Hehe ;D
Would be SO much easier and natural to do on a proper bike controller like DD's using.
Hawk.
Not looking good Meyer.......keeps going blank at 34%of rendering???
Might have to start over not lol
DD
Cheezus, I can already hear the 2SK (2 Strokes Klan) saying: "See ? In GPB I can have a 2s that spanks all the 4s. I told you it was doable, if only Honda wanted it !".
Well done Matty, keep on feeding the trolls :)
P.S.
Anybody needing a Tron bike ? Cause I can make you one in 15min flat.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 09, 2016, 10:02:12 PM
Not looking good Meyer.......keeps going blank at 34%of rendering???
Might have to start over not lol
DD
That sucks!! Well shit happens, no matter what you decide to do, i am looking forward for next video, even if it is without me lol
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:03:18 PM
Cheezus, I can already hear the 2SK (2 Strokes Klan) saying: "See ? In GPB I can have a 2s that spanks all the 4s. I told you it was doable, if only Honda wanted it !".
Well done Matty, keep on feeding the trolls :)
P.S.
Anybody needing a Tron bike ? Cause I can make you one in 15min flat.
Whoa, we're just having some fun! :o
I'd happily have a 150bhp Triple riding around the TT but I can't do that :P
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 10:06:43 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:03:18 PM
Cheezus, I can already hear the 2SK (2 Strokes Klan) saying: "See ? In GPB I can have a 2s that spanks all the 4s. I told you it was doable, if only Honda wanted it !".
Well done Matty, keep on feeding the trolls :)
P.S.
Anybody needing a Tron bike ? Cause I can make you one in 15min flat.
Whoa, we're just having some fun! :o
Me too !
BTW you should just have taken the varese as it is, renamed it to "vaese_v594_2s_R_Betta" (or something), swapped the tyres for the 990's ones (might want to check the radius and adapt) and multiplied the engine torque curve by 1.26 (= 177KW / 140KW). Job done. If you're really really picky, multiply by 1.26 also the engine brake curve.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:17:02 PM
Me too !
BTW you should just have taken the varese as it is, renamed it to "vaese_v594_2s_R_Betta" (or something), swapped the tyres for the 990's ones (might want to check the radius and adapt) and multiplied the engine torque curve by 1.26 (= 177KW / 140KW). Job done. If you're really really picky, multiply by 1.26 also the engine brake curve.
I'm not that stupid :P I did start with that but the bike handled terribly. The bike wouldn't turn and was unnatural to ride.
It was more to see if i could get the wheels and swingarm to work with the chassis and it does, really nice bike to ride.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:03:18 PM
Cheezus, I can already hear the 2SK (2 Strokes Klan) saying: "See ? In GPB I can have a 2s that spanks all the 4s. I told you it was doable, if only Honda wanted it !".
Well done Matty, keep on feeding the trolls :)
P.S.
Anybody needing a Tron bike ? Cause I can make you one in 15min flat.
210hp/4*5=262.5hp - 20 years ago... (http://www.swissauto.com/e/motor/projekt_techdata.jsp?ID_Display=20000D)
Anyway, I know you're not being serious.
Thanks for your effort, matty but imo the electronics defeat the purpose of a "X/fantasy class".
Why do electronics get you guys all in a tizzy? They can be turned OFF FFS so it is in keeping with being modern and caters for ALL not just YOU!!!
DD
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:17:02 PM
BTW you should just have taken the varese as it is, renamed it to "vaese_v594_2s_R_Betta" (or something), swapped the tyres for the 990's ones (might want to check the radius and adapt) and multiplied the engine torque curve by 1.26 (= 177KW / 140KW). Job done. If you're really really picky, multiply by 1.26 also the engine brake curve.
I'm not that stupid :P I did start with that but the bike handled terribly. The bike wouldn't turn and was unnatural to ride.
But why it would handle terribly just giving it a more powerful engine with no other change ?!
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 01:01:14 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:03:18 PM
P.S.
Anybody needing a Tron bike ? Cause I can make you one in 15min flat.
210hp/4*5=262.5hp - 20 years ago... (http://www.swissauto.com/e/motor/projekt_techdata.jsp?ID_Display=20000D)
Anyway, I know you're not being serious.
20 years ago, let's assume +2cv per year starting from 262cv, I'll take we can give her 302cv hands down.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 08:07:09 AM
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 09, 2016, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 09, 2016, 10:17:02 PM
BTW you should just have taken the varese as it is, renamed it to "vaese_v594_2s_R_Betta" (or something), swapped the tyres for the 990's ones (might want to check the radius and adapt) and multiplied the engine torque curve by 1.26 (= 177KW / 140KW). Job done. If you're really really picky, multiply by 1.26 also the engine brake curve.
I'm not that stupid :P I did start with that but the bike handled terribly. The bike wouldn't turn and was unnatural to ride.
But why it would handle terribly just giving it a more powerful engine with no other change ?!
QuoteThe bike wouldn't turn and was unnatural to ride.
I don't know what did it but putting the rc990 wheel models on the bike helped. With the original wheels, it didn't want to lean as far and was slugish to turn. Unless something went wrong putting the tyres on the bike which i then managed to fix without knowing putting the wheels on. This is how i felt the bike handled.
I love it matty good work bro.
Gotta come up with a good video and be sweet to Piboso lol
DD
From my tinkering it seems that 'trail' is computed in game from the tyre file depending on wheel selection (tyre radius does not seem to be saved in .geom).
This has a big impact on trail measurement and so far seems to be one of the big factors controlling in-game physics. Try adding the different numbers in bikeED and see what values you get back.
Quote from: h106frp on April 10, 2016, 08:58:10 AM
From my tinkering it seems that 'trail' is computed in game from the tyre file depending on wheel selection (tyre radius does not seem to be saved in .geom).
This has a big impact on trail measurement and so far seems to be one of the big factors controlling in-game physics. Try adding the different numbers in bikeED and see what values you get back.
Could be, i don't know enough about each individual value :P (maybe with some documentation we might know
;) ;) Nudge Nudge)
The only logical thing i could think of is how the tyre data was implemented on the actual model in game (the v594 wheel is a different shape to the rc990) but thats just a theory
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:36:44 AM
I don't know what did it but putting the rc990 wheel models on the bike helped. With the original wheels, it didn't want to lean as far and was slugish to turn. Unless something went wrong putting the tyres on the bike which i then managed to fix without knowing putting the wheels on. This is how i felt the bike handled.
Just looking at the geometric parameters of the rear tyre of the 990 vs the varese: radius / torus radius are 0.325 / 0.13 for the 990 and 0.305 / 0.13 for the varese (width is the same for both, 60).
So what you should do is take the 990 tyre and change its geometric params (Radius and TorusRadius) to match the ones of the varese . You will have a tyre that performs like the 990 tyre (roughly speaking, same grip), but has the same dimensions as the varese original tyre. Do the same for the front and you're done (well, if you want different tyre types like quali, soft, med etc you'll have to do the same operation multiple times). it won't be very realistic probably, but I'm not sure realism is a concern here :P
If you just put the 990 tyre on the varese, due to the different sizes you alter the overall geometry: probably a bad idea.
Quote from: h106frp on April 10, 2016, 08:58:10 AM
From my tinkering it seems that 'trail' is computed in game from the tyre file depending on wheel selection (tyre radius does not seem to be saved in .geom).
This has a big impact on trail measurement and so far seems to be one of the big factors controlling in-game physics. Try adding the different numbers in bikeED and see what values you get back.
Of course, wheel radius will affect trail (bigger radius, bigger trail, if it was positive to start with).
Notice however that I think trail per se is only computed to be shown to you: the physics does not know about trail, it's implicit in the model.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 10, 2016, 07:24:04 AM
Why do electronics get you guys all in a tizzy? They can be turned OFF FFS so it is in keeping with being modern and caters for ALL not just YOU!!!
DD
You ask why DD? Simply because they take away from the real riding skills of great riders compared to lesser capable riders in which they improve their performance from what it would be in reality.
But no... Electronics should be totally banned in my opinion simply because they aid a riders performance, and a rider should have to rely totally on their own skills "un-aided".... In a way it is a form of cheating the heart, soul and spirit of motorcycle racing or any sports that use electronic aids. :P ::)
If an athlete takes a performance aiding substance they are banned from the sport... Then why should any aids be allowed in motorsport that aid a riders performance? Get my drift? :P :)
Now bring on the disagreements! I know there will be many! Hehe ;D 8)
Hawk.
Okay, but why should people who are just learning this sim have to suffer the fact that in real life its there but because Hawk dont want it, they cant have it. Sorry but this is not YOUR sim it is for everyone.
DONT get all upset I am using you as an example, but it runs true. You have to remember and ACCEPT that Piboso and modders are kind enough to do much work and try to cater for everyone. If the world produced products purely based on personal preference life would suck buddy.
I tried the V750X with and without electronics on as it interests me, I used to ride with them all on as I am new, but thanks to you guys AND having them to start with I am weening myself off of them.
If GPB was the way YOU want it, it would not sell very well as many would not be able to ride straight away due to the learning curve.
I just dont see the point in bitching about something that can be turned off, why should it be banned just because you think so, sorry but it is a selfish attitude to have. YOU are not a selfish person and put so much into GPB for us all, it quite surprises me that you would want such a thing.
Well thats me 2 cents and hope you dont think I am having a go at ya mate, just saying something is all.
Hope I dont get your front wheel up me bumhole or a Rossi lol.
Enjoy the MotoGP tonight folks
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 10, 2016, 02:53:22 PMOkay, but why should people who are just learning this sim have to suffer the fact that in real life its there but because Hawk dont want it, they cant have it. Sorry but this is not YOUR sim it is for everyone.
These people can practice their throttle control on the 500cc and then move up once they got it.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 10, 2016, 02:53:22 PMI just dont see the point in bitching about something that can be turned off, why should it be banned just because you think so, sorry but it is a selfish attitude to have. YOU are not a selfish person and put so much into GPB for us all, it quite surprises me that you would want such a thing.
Well, once again, the whole point of this "X class" is to have bikes that are fundamentally different to ride and require different skills to take advantage of their potential.
If you put all the electronics and the 990 tyres on the Varese, it will just end up riding like any other four stroke with low engine brake setting (and no power at low revs).
After a short period of time, people will have figured out which bike is faster and since the two stroke would not be harder to rider, everybody would end up on the same bike in races.
All is good in love and war lol
I fully understand what you mean, its only my way of thinking is for everyone as it may be some young kid who REALLY wants to get into this but it is just too far above him.
I aint fussed when it comes to it. I will try to ride a wheelie bin if it had an engine lol
DD
@vin: if you don't need the 990 tires on your X bike, why don't you just raise the power curve to whatever you like ? That's not even a 5min job, it's a 2min one.
In your dreams of "modern" 2 strokes, it should probably have tyres as performing as the modern ones. So, in your own interest, I'd say it's fair for it to have tyres performing as the 990 ones (but geometrically identical to the varese's tyres).
Notice that on top of the engine part dreaming, this tyre part is dreaming too: it's unlikely that tyres as performing as the 990 ones could be built: they won't last as long with a much more abrupt power delivery and no TC. But again, that's not a problem for me: you're trying to model a bike that does not exist anyway, so there's no constraint.
Re Electronics
It would be OK if I could set the electrimical assists off (or even on) on servers so the racing would at least be fair but li'l Johnny can still ride it for practice with 'assists'. Better still he just dug in to his box of 'man-up' and put the time in to master something hard and feel some pride in him/herself. ;)
So if the 500s are the 'Unrideables' wtf will the 750's be???
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 03:47:32 PM
@vin: if you don't need the 990 tires on your X bike, why don't you just raise the power curve to whatever you like ? That's not even a 5min job, it's a 2min one.
In your dreams of "modern" 2 strokes, it should probably have tyres as performing as the modern ones. So, in your own interest, I'd say it's fair for it to have tyres performing as the 990 ones (but geometrically identical to the varese's tyres).
Ah, yes, of course the bike needs better tyres. The Varese tyres would have absolutely no chance against Manu's MotoGP bikes or even the standard Mura.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 03:47:32 PMNotice that on top of the engine part dreaming, this tyre part is dreaming too: it's unlikely that tyres as performing as the 990 ones could be built: they won't last as long with a much more abrupt power delivery and no TC. But again, that's not a problem for me: you're trying to model a bike that does not exist anyway, so there's no constraint.
Let it go, man.
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 04:12:58 PM
Let it go, man.
Let go what ? I'm trying to tell you how to achieve what you'd like to achieve, despite your messy explanations:
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 03:38:45 PM
If you put all the electronics and the 990 tyres on the Varese, it will just end up riding like any other four stroke with low engine brake setting (and no power at low revs).
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 04:12:58 PM
Ah, yes, of course the bike needs better tyres. The Varese tyres would have absolutely no chance against Manu's MotoGP bikes or even the standard Mura.
The 750 rides great, I can ride it no electrics.........................JUST lol
DD
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 04:19:33 PMLet go what ?
Constantly reminding us that it is a fantasy bike we are building. We know how you feel about two strokes.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 04:19:33 PMI'm trying to tell you how to achieve what you'd like to achieve, despite your messy explanations:
I think matty already knows what he needs to do since he doesn't purposely misunderstand comments.
This is purely for fun, if it bothers anyone that we are trying to make a PROJECT bike, then leave and let us have our fun. It's futile to think this bike would ever come to be a real thing but while we can, why not. People have asked for this bike, So i have obliged to make one. Electronics or not. Modern tyres or not, modern frames etc. The bike is a rendition of what we believe to be a bike capable of competing with our standard of a Moto GP bike. End of.
Lets keep this civil guys, it's a bloody game at the end of the day.
Matty
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 04:46:41 PM
Constantly reminding us that it is a fantasy bike we are building. We know how you feel about two strokes.
What I feel for 2s is irrelevant here. By a mile.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 04:49:54 PM
This is purely for fun, if it bothers anyone that we are trying to make a PROJECT bike, then leave and let us have our fun. It's futile to think this bike would ever come to be a real thing but while we can, why not. People have asked for this bike, So i have obliged to make one. Electronics or not. Modern tyres or not, modern frames etc. The bike is a rendition of what we believe to be a bike capable of competing with our standard of a Moto GP bike. End of.
It doesn't bother me at all. Proof is I've told you guys how to do it right: varese + better engine + 990 tyres (in varese's size). Job done (and no electronics, as they were asking).
I really don't see what I'm accused of here but fine for me.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 05:02:17 PM
It doesn't bother me at all. Proof is I've told you guys how to do it right: varese + better engine + 990 tyres (in varese's size). Job done (and no electronics, as they were asking).
I really don't see what I'm accused of here but fine for me.
Saying what we are doing is pointless. I'm fully aware its pointless (but I'm still doing it because i like to tinker). I don't need it to be pointed out, nor in such a way that makes everything I spent last night doing a waste of time.
I think its cool you tinker matty, love the results. You cant just take real life physics and say they will work in GPB anyways, GPB is NOT perfect and its just a sim FFS lol.
Tinker away bro, I am willing to risk life and limb test riding your creations.
Prof. DD von Frankenstein
PS: I think I got a good idea for the V750X paintwork HAHAHAHAHAHA
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 05:02:17 PM
It doesn't bother me at all. Proof is I've told you guys how to do it right: varese + better engine + 990 tyres (in varese's size). Job done (and no electronics, as they were asking).
I really don't see what I'm accused of here but fine for me.
Saying what we are doing is pointless. I'm fully aware its pointless (but I'm still doing it because i like to tinker). I don't need it to be pointed out, nor in such a way that makes everything I spent last night doing a waste of time.
I never said what you did is pointless: I said you could have done it in an easier manner (to answer the request that has been formulated by some).
The fact I eventually consider the bike as unrealistic is not a problem at all and surely not a reason to stop you (or whoever) tinkering.
@DD: The whole idea behind this bike was to have a traditional but modern(that doesn't automatically mean electronics! Lol)2 stroke bike to compete with the modern MotoGP bikes. Traditionally the 2 strokes didn't have electronic aids, that's why I don't want them on this bike either.
What would've been a natural progression for the 2 strokes I'm all for, like modern mechanical parts like chassis, wheels, tyres, brakes and suspension as they are a true natural progression of material technology and still require a riders skilful inputs to use them to the "Max"(no pun intended. Hehe). But saying you want electronic aids on a 2 stroke!... WHY? I mean seriously WHY!?? :o :o
Also ask yourselves just how much of this modern electronic aid fiasco would actually be viable and useful on a modern 2 stroke racing bike had they not moved over to the 4 stroke bikes? Can you honestly answer that question?
What are we trying to create here? A traditional but modern 2 stroke bike with true 2 stroke race bike character or a lame 2 stroke bike that any monkey could ride very fast on a bad day!? :P
I personally want a true 2 stroke racing machine that is exciting to ride and takes practice and skill to ride well not a twist and go machine that attracts the current generation of console-boys! ::)
OMG! Has the modern sport of MotoGP really seduced it's fans into believing that electronic aids are a vital part of modern day racing motorcycles!? This is a sad day indeed!! Hehe! ;D ;D
Hawk
PS: So much passion just for the idea of creating an "X" bike....... LOVE IT!!! ;D ;D 8) 8)
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 07:10:38 PM
I never said what you did is pointless: I said you could have done it in an easier manner (to answer the request that has been formulated by some).
The fact I eventually consider the bike as unrealistic is not a problem at all and surely not a reason to stop you (or whoever) tinkering.
Sorry, it must have come across wrong. The way you put it, it seemed aggressive :P
No worries ;D
Quote from: Hawk on April 10, 2016, 07:11:44 PM
What are we trying to create here? A traditional but modern 2 stroke bike with true 2 stroke race bike character or a lame 2 stroke bike that any monkey could ride very fast on a bad day!? :P
I personally want a true 2 stroke racing machine that is exciting to ride and takes practice and skill to ride well not a twist and go machine that attracts the current generation of console-boys! ::)
Ah there you go. A traditional but modern 2 stroke.
I believe no major manufacturer could/would release a bike like this without modern electronics :P
But if you want, when development continues (on hold due to no word from the Boss :P) I will remove the electronics.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 07:35:03 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 10, 2016, 07:11:44 PM
What are we trying to create here? A traditional but modern 2 stroke bike with true 2 stroke race bike character or a lame 2 stroke bike that any monkey could ride very fast on a bad day!? :P
I personally want a true 2 stroke racing machine that is exciting to ride and takes practice and skill to ride well not a twist and go machine that attracts the current generation of console-boys! ::)
Ah there you go. A traditional but modern 2 stroke.
I believe no major manufacturer could/would release a bike like this without modern electronics :P
But if you want, when development continues (on hold due to no word from the Boss :P) I will remove the electronics.
Haha!... Matty, as I said above.... It sounds like you have been seduced into believing that electronic control is a vital part of modern day motorcycle racing bikes.... Wouldn't it be so much more exciting to watch if they banned electronics... Surely you can see that? You'd also be able to appreciate the skill involved in controlling one of those bikes without electronics too, just like we did with the old school riders.... They were true hero's. :P ;D
Take no notice of me Matty, I'm just voicing my opinions on the subject....... If you want to develop an "X" 2 stroke bike with electronics then do so, I can always develop one in tandum without electronics as an alternative. I've no doubt I'll be asking your advice and how-to's anyway! ;D ;) 8)
Hawk.
No problem Matty.
I kind of second the idea of no electronics on the X bike, but probably not for the same reasons as Hawk.
Unless other things are tweaked, the X bike will be unrideable. But this is likely what Hawk is looking for so it's all good.
It's a nice experiment in fact.
Seen as I ride a bike that has no electronic aids (2006 Triumph 675) I can appreciate not having them.
But then I look at my old mans Ducati 1199s, with launch control, abs, traction, up and down quick shift, pit limiter, cruise control with nearly 200 bhp (he got a full ecu upgrade for stupid money and couldn't pass it up, fucking thing pumps out nearly 200bhp in race mode and thats with just a re-mapped ecu and a slip on system :o) ;D
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 07:53:36 PM
Unless other things are tweaked, the X bike will be unrideable. But this is likely what Hawk is looking for so it's all good.
It's a nice experiment in fact.
On the contrary, even with aids turned off the bike is very rideable (look at my video) and in the right hands it could be a real weapon.
Anti-wheelie is probably the biggest help, stops you flipping the bike to easily. The bike tends to spin the rear rather than wheelie most of the time... bloody thing eats tyres.
EDIT- also the bike suffers from the fairings touching the floor in long turns due to it being a wide bike
And thats my point.......................why all this conversation when the dang electronics can be turned OFF????
matty was just kind enough to do it for all IMO. I prefer it with them OFF.
Its an X bike and HE can make it as Xy as he wants nananananana.
DD
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 07:53:36 PM
No problem Matty.
I kind of second the idea of no electronics on the X bike, but probably not for the same reasons as Hawk.
Unless other things are tweaked, the X bike will be unrideable. But this is likely what Hawk is looking for so it's all good.
It's a nice experiment in fact.
Actually Max, despite all my bluster about electronics needing to be banned, you'd probably find that I'd agree with as to why you wouldn't want this bike to have electronics.... Try me. ;)
Bikes are not unridable if you realise that it is you that has to learn to control the bike and not totally rely on electronic control to keep the bike under control...... I mean how on earth did we ever survive without electronic controlled bikes, huh? God forbid! Lol ;D
Electronics is all about what they perceive as making MotoGP more exciting to watch because the electronics allow all decent riders on decent bikes to ride faster with much more stability and it's much more likely for the riders to be closer together on track..... You can see by the way the bikes are ridden today that if they tried to ride like that without electronic aids they would be flat on their arses every time. No way could they ride an old school bike like they do today and get away with it.... NO WAY! :P
Haha! Just heard Kevin Schwantz talking about the differences between MotoGP and Old School bikes and riding style and modern MotoGP bikes abilities due to electronics... Basically he says what I've been saying..... I have to say... I totally agree with him! ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 07:53:36 PM
Unless other things are tweaked, the X bike will be unrideable. But this is likely what Hawk is looking for so it's all good.
It's a nice experiment in fact.
On the contrary, even with aids turned off the bike is very rideable (look at my video) and in the right hands it could be a real weapon.
But you didn't change only the engine and the tyres, or am I wrong ?
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
Anti-wheelie is probably the biggest help, stops you flipping the bike to easily. The bike tends to spin the rear rather than wheelie most of the time... bloody thing eats tyres.
Told you about eating the tires in my 1st message in this topic. And this is why it is not realistic to give this kind of bike the same tyres of a 990 (but that's just for the records, I'm not pushing an argument): more brutal power + no TC = higher tyre temps ==> globally worse tyres. TC has allowed for better tyres in motogp.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
EDIT- also the bike suffers from the fairings touching the floor in long turns due to it being a wide bike
Likely because it's leaning much more than the original varese.
@Hawk: people were riding without electronics, but not with the power levels of today (nor the top-speeds). And most of the riders of that era have had severe injuries.
If you want no electronics (which is a reasonable request) you'd have to tune down the power. But then you'd complain it's unfair, because you want bikes with no electronics but still as fast as today's bikes. It's not doable. Electronics makes bikes go faster: if you want to get rid of it, you'd have to accept slower lap times.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 09:16:40 PMAnd most of the riders of that era have had severe injuries.
If you want no electronics (which is a reasonable request) you'd have to tune down the power. But then you'd complain it's unfair, because you want bikes with no electronics but still as fast as today's bikes. It's not doable. Electronics makes bikes go faster: if you want to get rid of it, you'd have to accept slower lap times.
Luckily GPB is a game so we don't have these problems.
MotoGP tyres seem to be fine with 270hp working on them.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 09:16:40 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 07:53:36 PM
Unless other things are tweaked, the X bike will be unrideable. But this is likely what Hawk is looking for so it's all good.
It's a nice experiment in fact.
On the contrary, even with aids turned off the bike is very rideable (look at my video) and in the right hands it could be a real weapon.
But you didn't change only the engine and the tyres, or am I wrong ?
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
Anti-wheelie is probably the biggest help, stops you flipping the bike to easily. The bike tends to spin the rear rather than wheelie most of the time... bloody thing eats tyres.
Told you about eating the tires in my 1st message in this topic. And this is why it is not realistic to give this kind of bike the same tyres of a 990 (but that's just for the records, I'm not pushing an argument): more brutal power + no TC = higher tyre temps ==> globally worse tyres. TC has allowed for better tyres in motogp.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
EDIT- also the bike suffers from the fairings touching the floor in long turns due to it being a wide bike
Likely because it's leaning much more than the original varese.
@Hawk: people were riding without electronics, but not with the power levels of today (nor the top-speeds). And most of the riders of that era have had severe injuries.
If you want no electronics (which is a reasonable request) you'd have to tune down the power. But then you'd complain it's unfair, because you want bikes with no electronics but still as fast as today's bikes. It's not doable. Electronics makes bikes go faster: if you want to get rid of it, you'd have to accept slower lap times.
Edited engine curve. Rc990 wheels and the longer swingarm from the 990.
When i say it eats tyres. Its more my riding, with some managment they are ine. Just dont overheat them. But this is just my limited testing so when other people get involed this shouldnt be a problem. The bike has only got 230bhp same as the 990 so the tyres hould be able to handle it fine. But yes i see what you mean.
This bike get over way more than the 990 or varese . Its closer to the moto gp bikes. But if thats what we are competing against then i suppose thats a better thing...
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 09:24:36 PM
MotoGP tyres seem to be fine with 270hp working on them.
Right. And that's because ... because they have TC: remove TC on a motogp bike and they tyre manufacturer has to go back to the drawing board and will come back to you in 6 months with a tyre much less performing. It's not hard to explain it: TC = less spinning = lower operating temperature = allows for "softer" compounds = allows for more grip (for the same race length).
This is how things work in reality. Then in GPB, given that the TC is not very sophisticated, you may be able to partially get away with it (meaning the 990 tyres are better then the reality to compensate for the not-so-good TC, and this could partially save you on a bike with no TC).
But if the X bike ends up eating too much the tyres, we just have to tweak the corresponding parameter to give it even better tyres (I mean it, I'm not being sarcastic).
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 09:27:14 PM
The bike has only got 230bhp same as the 990 so the tyres hould be able to handle it fine. But yes i see what you mean.
No, it's not only a matter of power (see above).
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 10, 2016, 09:27:14 PM
This bike get over way more than the 990 or varese . Its closer to the moto gp bikes. But if thats what we are competing against then i suppose thats a better thing...
Rephrase please :) I can't understand what you meant here.
ah sorry but then look at the 990cc motogp bikes. lot of power but not much tc, they were sliding the bikes much more than now and it was no problem for the tyre.
Quote from: vin97 on April 10, 2016, 10:08:53 PM
ah sorry but then look at the 990cc motogp bikes. lot of power but not much tc, they were sliding the bikes much more than now and it was no problem for the tyre.
Sliding is one thing, spinning under power is another. 500 era bike could spin on straights every time you opened the throttle.
I seem to remember in the GP500 documentary "Faster" that they explained that the theory that spinning the tyres-up being a bad thing for wear and tear is actually a false premise...... I can't remember exactly what they said was the reason, but the general idea I got was that apparently the spinning-up of the tyres during acceleration throughout a corner and the exit creates a change in the immediate surface compound of the tyres that resists wear and tear more than you'd think would be the case and doesn't in actual fact wreck the tyres as would be expected.
@Max: Yes, old school riders did suffer more injuries than todays riders, but a major reason your not seeing the severe injuries today is because of the protection now built into the riders suits that the old school riders didn't have access to back then.
Then of course the modern electronics make the modern MotoGP bikes SO much more stable and easier to ride than the old school bikes.
Electronic aids do allow riders to ride these modern powerful bikes relatively safely, that I do agree with, but I totally disagree that the modern bikes could not be ridden without the electronics..... Yes they would be SO much more unstable and harder to ride than they currently are but that's were the real cream and the truly skilled riders would rise to the top of the pile.... and yes we'd have more riders severely injured and killed than currently is the case today, but that is motorsport, it's dangerous! If people don't like dangerous sport then they don't have to take part, right?
There's always been a fine line between safety and ripping the heart out of dangerous sports through allowing over zealous do-gooders dictating and taking safety measures to the extreme - Sensible safety measures like plenty of run-off areas at accident prone spots and body protection built into suits doesn't take away from the spirit of dangerous sports, but when you start introducing what is basically an electronic nanny to govern your inputs to a large degree to try and assure you cannot make major mistakes is when the soul of the sport dies, and that's what has happened and is still in the process of happening to MotoGP, but only us oldies can see it happening because the younger generation have never known anything different and therefore cannot see the changes happening.
There is no doubt that these electronic aids ENHANCE a riders ability to ride the bikes faster than would be possible without the electronics.... This in anyone's book is cheating - no other word for it, and no other sport would allow it to happen. It goes against the spirit of what sporting competition is all about. MotoGP has become a pantomime, a façade of what it used to be, and until they ban electronic aids then entertaining as it is, a façade it will always remain.
But having ranted on about all that I still watch MotoGP with a passion! Lol ;D ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 10, 2016, 11:11:59 PM
I seem to remember in the GP500 documentary "Faster" that they explained that the theory that spinning the tyres-up being a bad thing for wear and tear is actually a false premise...... I can't remember exactly what they said was the reason, but the general idea I got was that apparently the spinning-up of the tyres during acceleration throughout a corner and the exit creates a change in the immediate surface compound of the tyres that resists wear and tear more than you'd think would be the case and doesn't in actual fact wreck the tyres as would be expected.
Not what I heard reported from a tyre engineer working in motogp these days.
Sounds strange too: if the change you mention is good, why not overheat the tyres all the time and have them always in the "better surface compound" state ?
maybe the slide deforms the tyre and/or shifts the contact patch a bit to the middle of the tyre?
...on the electronics in motogp discussion: imo they should go back to the 990cc electronics. relatively safe and nice big slides.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 10, 2016, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 10, 2016, 11:11:59 PM
I seem to remember in the GP500 documentary "Faster" that they explained that the theory that spinning the tyres-up being a bad thing for wear and tear is actually a false premise...... I can't remember exactly what they said was the reason, but the general idea I got was that apparently the spinning-up of the tyres during acceleration throughout a corner and the exit creates a change in the immediate surface compound of the tyres that resists wear and tear more than you'd think would be the case and doesn't in actual fact wreck the tyres as would be expected.
Not what I heard reported from a tyre engineer working in motogp these days.
Sounds strange too: if the change you mention is good, why not overheat the tyres all the time and have them always in the "better surface compound" state ?
But that was the strange phenomena they found.... that in actual fact the tyre wasn't overheating while it was spinning up under those circumstances.... I know it sounds weird, I thought so to, but apparently that was the case..... I'll have to watch it again and see if I can post the excerpt from the video. ;)
Hawk.
With the current power. No traction control activated and riding the bike in a controlled mannor. The tyres cope fine.
@Max
Sorry, it was a question in general. What is the bike meant to be compared against. The moto gp bikes or the rc990
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 11, 2016, 06:04:14 AM
With the current power. No traction control activated and riding the bike in a controlled mannor. The tyres cope fine.
Give it to our fast fellas here, I'm not sure they will ride it "in a controlled manner" :)
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 11, 2016, 06:04:14 AM
@Max
Sorry, it was a question in general. What is the bike meant to be compared against. The moto gp bikes or the rc990
I don't know, you should ask vin and hawk :)
Hey hey! I am usually pretty gentle to the tyres and riding in a kinda controlled mannor :P
I think it was supposed to be able to compete with the MotoGP mod bikes with the right riders onboard :)
Id like to give you guys but im not publicly releasing the bike until i hear back from Piboso. (2 days still waiting...) :P
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 11, 2016, 08:39:50 AM
Id like to give you guys but im not publicly releasing the bike until i hear back from Piboso. (2 days still waiting...) :P
I don't think he would object to that: the physics is unencrypted and what you do is for GPB so I don't see any issue.
In the past we've already seen many others playing around with the default bikes: many of the mod bikes we had just used the default physics (of the 990 or the 500).
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2016, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 11, 2016, 08:39:50 AM
Id like to give you guys but im not publicly releasing the bike until i hear back from Piboso. (2 days still waiting...) :P
I don't think he would object to that: the physics is unencrypted and what you do is for GPB so I don't see any issue.
In the past we've already seen many others playing around with the default bikes: many of the mod bikes we had just used the default physics (of the 990 or the 500).
This is why i asked the question (sent via a PM)
The s80 bikes and the gp125 italia are examples of what the stock bikes are capable of being but as Piboso has pointed out, the stock bikes use real world data and the game is ment to represent that. So they aren't true bikes.
I mean, you could just upload the bits that you changed and let us do the "unofficial modding".
Quote from: vin97 on April 11, 2016, 02:46:31 PM
I mean, you could just upload the bits that you changed and let us do the "unofficial modding".
Remember how Piboso reacted when I posted a link to the Varase model without asking Pibos's permission first? You guys are playing with a mighty hot fire with suggestions like that. Lol
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2016, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: vin97 on April 11, 2016, 02:46:31 PM
I mean, you could just upload the bits that you changed and let us do the "unofficial modding".
Remember how Piboso reacted when I posted a link to the Varase model without asking Pibos's permission first? You guys are playing with a mighty hot fire with suggestions like that. Lol
Hawk.
This...
Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2016, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: vin97 on April 11, 2016, 02:46:31 PM
I mean, you could just upload the bits that you changed and let us do the "unofficial modding".
Remember how Piboso reacted when I posted a link to the Varase model without asking Pibos's permission first? You guys are playing with a mighty hot fire with suggestions like that. Lol
Wasn't it the 3d model ? That would be understandable.
But here we're only talking about taking the varese physics and tweaking it (creating a varese on steroids). I really really don't see the issue: again, in the past, many mods were just using the 990 and varese physics, with no problem. In some sense, the default physics is the mother of all mods as everybody just copies (more or less) from it.
Anyway, I'm in no rush, so if matty wants to wait for permission, up to him.
I have a feeling im going to be waiting forever, it would be a first to get a reply from Piboso, Nice to see he reads his messages... ;)
If these tests were for a 750cc 4 stroke, you could use my bike ;D So I can just focus on the graphics, that is what I like to do :-X
If anyone interested HERE (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_nr750.htm) will find lots of information on the bike. :-X
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 11, 2016, 04:59:49 PM
Quote from: Hawk on April 11, 2016, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: vin97 on April 11, 2016, 02:46:31 PM
I mean, you could just upload the bits that you changed and let us do the "unofficial modding".
Remember how Piboso reacted when I posted a link to the Varase model without asking Pibos's permission first? You guys are playing with a mighty hot fire with suggestions like that. Lol
Wasn't it the 3d model ? That would be understandable.
But here we're only talking about taking the varese physics and tweaking it (creating a varese on steroids). I really really don't see the issue: again, in the past, many mods were just using the 990 and varese physics, with no problem. In some sense, the default physics is the mother of all mods as everybody just copies (more or less) from it.
Anyway, I'm in no rush, so if matty wants to wait for permission, up to him.
"
Were there's a will there's a way".... Solution pending......... ;D
Hawk.
I have the info on the bike Blackheart but can I have the bike to test to pretty pleasy???
DD
Matty's V750X is a blast and the handling is great, thanks for the privilege to test it Matty.
Nordscheife is a bitch on most bikes but feels great on this in default settings lol. Still need to grow some balls for it though hehe.
DD
PS: Made a skin to fit it lol
Hi guys,
Firstly @Piboso. This is just a quick snippet to show how a 750 2stroke may be if we had one. No disrespect is meant and it is only due to your fantastic bikes this was possible to experiment with. It is not for release and purely to see how such a bike would act. If you considered it to be okay to actually have in GP Bikes it would be most kind and understanding of you. If this upsets you in any way please remove it and I will ensure no other videos are shown. Thank you for your understanding. DD
So I am not posting this in media as it is really only to do with this bike subject. I have been playing with Matty's V750X and it is a pleasure to ride. it has the punch you expect, and more, but it has the refined character of the 990 even with the TC off. It rarely presented(YET) a really bad slapper, even on the Green Hell which kills many bikes from being ridden there.
Here is a snippet that shows how it has just oodles of get up and go, yet is manageable.
https://www.youtube.com/v/s0rbmsbrdkA
I did not want to make a full video as I wish to ensure it does not upset Piboso in any way first.
The bike is a beast and a blast, yet it is fully rideable if you just think a bit more about the power between your legs............YEAH BABY
Thanks to Matty for letting me play with this, fantastic job old boy, jolly good show.......................
Hopefully Piboso will see this is a compliment to his work and nothing more so that maybe it could be used for this Battle of the Stokers. If so I think it would be one hell of a race series.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 11, 2016, 06:01:30 PM
I have the info on the bike Blackheart but can I have the bike to test to pretty pleasy???
DD
Ups sorry I had not read this, tonight I should be able to pack the bike (with default physics and sound) and put the link ;)
That's cool BH, I really look forward to riding it. As much as I like pure race bikes, I like the Stock street bikes or modded streetbikes(Pipes, forks etc) a lot. This is also a special and rare bike so will be very interested in it.
Do I have permission to paint it and make videos with it? Pretty Please
DD
Nice work DD ;D
DUDE..........you did all the work I just painted the fooker lol. Got new helmet and leathers to match hehe
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 12, 2016, 04:52:45 PM
DUDE..........you did all the work I just painted the fooker lol. Got new helmet and leathers to match hehe
DD
Don't get to attached ;)
Its not a frickin puppy dog dude lol.
Will keep it under cover in the back of the garage lol
DD
This isn't dead, a new version of the bike is in the works but as it's my first time doing this it's going to take a while but stay tuned :D
Meyer just told me so had to check, cool bro.
I am loving it so far so look forward to the update.
DD
First motor in this video says it all, they do V8 bikes this would be for us the right motor lol.
https://www.youtube.com/v/dyUK4MHjP8g
DD
sooo, what are we going to do with this "X class"?
maybe use manu's nsr as a starting point if he allows it?
Quote from: vin97 on May 25, 2016, 12:59:11 PM
sooo, what are we going to do with this "X class"?
maybe us manu's nsr as a starting point if he allows it?
We already in the process of creating this bike Vin. We've finished the model and are just putting it together. Next will be sorting out the bike physics. ;)
Hawk.
I still have the original 750X hehe
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 25, 2016, 01:05:00 PM
I still have the original 750X hehe
DD
Oh! Hehe..... I think you'll see some major differences in the new version DD. ;D
Hawk.
oh very nice!!
This is one to look out for people ;)
Well send me it already lol.
DD
BUT I want it NOW!!!!
:'( :'( :'(
The bike will be ready when it is ready. I've got 101 things going at the moment and am 2 weeks away from moving so im not promising anything.
I know m8 I was just bustin ya balls bro lol.
Take as long as ya need I have so much to catch up on to so I know what ya mean.
Good luck with the moving.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 25, 2016, 07:39:06 PM
I know m8 I was just bustin ya balls bro lol.
Take as long as ya need I have so much to catch up on to so I know what ya mean.
Good luck with the moving.
DD
DD the ballbuster!
And good luck with moving Matty! And all the other stuff of course :)