Skeet skeet Brno 1000cc race

[Hawk]

I just wish Piboso would post "To-Do" list from the suggestions and wish list thread so the we don't feel we need to keep venting these issues that we've covered before.
That way, if ideas are not on his "To-Do" list then at least we know that we don't have to keep on about them again and again in the hope of gaining his attention on certain things.

If Piboso doesn't like the idea, then fine, but it would be good to know about it so we can stop hoping for it, you know;  or for that matter, any of the ideas from the suggestions and wish list thread.

Hawk.

[Desteban]

OK, so it would seem that on the grid in GPB the other bikes are too loud but on the track they are fine ?
If others agree, it's probably worth a dedicated post (suggestions section, maybe even bugs).

No certainly not, if the bike is beside me it shouldn't be louder than mine! If the bike is behind me then neither. The only time another bike is louder than your own is
when the exhaust of another bike is pointing at you at close distance.

I have the feeling the volume of the bike is emitted equally in a circular area around the bike while it should actually only be pointed backwards at full volume and on the other sides
with a lot less. Don't ask me for numbers but I think the playability could be sorted out very fast via trial and error. Lets Say backwards 100% and the rest 80% maybe?
That would make the feeling a lot more realistic.

[BOBR6 84]

Yeah all the bikes sound the same.. Just a noise! doesnt seem to take into acount where the bikes are on the track.. All I here from opponent bikes is like a laggy, looping engine noise if that makes any sense?

Irl On the grid all bikes sound different but I hear and feel my bike like huge basey speakers inside my helmet lol

[HornetMaX]

Yeah all the bikes sound the same.. Just a noise! doesnt seem to take into acount where the bikes are on the track..

That can't be true: audio in GPB is positional, just watch a replay from a fixed camera ... (you can ear the doppler effect too)

I have the feeling the volume of the bike is emitted equally in a circular area around the bike while it should actually only be pointed backwards at full volume and on the other sides with a lot less.

That may make sense. I'm no audio expert but it is true that the SPL diagram may not be "uniform".
Notice however that that alone wouldn't probably solve the issue: if the emission towards the front is 80%, that's applicable to a bike behind you but also to your own exhaust (which is behind your ears too), so ...

Maybe the overall sound simulation is over-simplified (e.g. sound originating from a single point on the bike and radiating equally in any direction). Don't know, just blabbing ...

I just wish Piboso would post "To-Do" list from the suggestions and wish list thread so the we don't feel we need to keep venting these issues that we've covered before.

We all wish that I guess, but ...

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

500s on the grid all sound the same! I couldnt tell if it was my bike revving or the bike behind, infront etc just one big noise.. Once I got going its fine!

Sounds are alot better from the replay cameras!

[Stout Johnson]

I just wish Piboso would post "To-Do" list from the suggestions and wish list thread so the we don't feel we need to keep venting these issues that we've covered before.
That way, if ideas are not on his "To-Do" list then at least we know that we don't have to keep on about them again and again in the hope of gaining his attention on certain things.

If Piboso doesn't like the idea, then fine, but it would be good to know about it so we can stop hoping for it, you know;  or for that matter, any of the ideas from the suggestions and wish list thread.

Very well said Hawk! This would be an easy thing to do. A to-do list would not take much time to maintain and he would not have to give extra feedback. We'd know that if our proposal is not on the list, he would not like the idea - period.  I thought about maintaining the wishlist-thread, but the fact that there is not much feedback sort of gives the impression it might be in vain. If there was a to-do list, it would be like a filter to the wish-list and therefore a good feedback. The motivation to keep the wishlist updated would be much higher.

[...] if the bike is beside me it shouldn't be louder than mine! If the bike is behind me then neither. The only time another bike is louder than your own is
when the exhaust of another bike is pointing at you at close distance.

Exactly. On the old forum I once made a statement concerning on how the sound declining with the distance is probably not right in GPB...

I'm less in favor of the ambient slider, simply on the principle that in reality you don't have it (but the suggestion is in the wishlist recap anyway  ).

Well I am with anybody who claims that GPB should be as realistic as possible. First off, imo some concessions should be acceptable due to having obvious limitations like less feedback (like Warlock said), worse way of controlling a bike (irl one has his whole body to control the bike, in GPB using a controller one is reduced to doing it with 6 fingers). But that is up to anybody to decide and I still am definitely with the rather hardcore simulation approach.

Secondly, concerning the ambient slider: Atm we obviously have no consensus on whether there is an issue in GPB concerning other bike's engine sounds.
1) Best case scenario: there actually is a problem in the sound simulation. the ambient sound slider would be an easy way to circumvent the issue until Piboso finds the time to deal with it.
2) Worst case scenario: the sound simulation already is perfect. But even then, the only real concession to realism we are making is that you could tone down other bike's sounds. Where does that leave us compared to concessions that are already implemented in GPB?! Like 3rd person view - oooh don't get me started with 3rd person view... One is allowed to see what is happening in front, see the left side of the bike, the right side of the bike and to some degree even what happens to the rear at once - what the....?! You even have elevated view, so it is much easier to see the optimal line, esp. on tracks with elevation differences. This is not only extremely unrealistic, it also leaves an unfair advantage compared to more hardcore sim addicts.

I am not even going to comment on possible helps like brake help etc. etc. I almost anticipate the argument of making it easier for newbies - but then this argument would also be true for sound slider. So - how much would a sound slider scrap off the realism anyhow? Not much. How much does a sound slider scrap off the realism compared to other helps already available? Almost not noticeable.

Imo, there is a third argument for the sound slider. Simulating the sound perfectly - directional sounds, different sound sources, sound reflections off other objects, sound absorbation in relation to distance, sound absorbation in relation to distance, sound absorbation in relation to wind speed and wind direction on track, etc etc.... this is propably as sophisticated as simulating tyre dynamics if done to the extreme. I am sure Piboso should rather focus on the motorcycle dynamics and online play, because this is the core of the game. Whether the sound noises are simulation to perfection or whether it is adjustable with a sound slider, makes about 0,1% of the whole GPB experience in my book. This is probably the reason every other car racer simulation has a sound slider - the cost/benefit ratio of a very sophisticated sound simulation is making it a no-brainer. Regarding the scare resources, Piboso should definitely not waste time doing more than he has already done + providing a slider. But this he should do for the sake of making online races more realistic. Because not hearing you engine is definitely not realistic.

[HornetMaX]

Sound decay with respect to distance is implemented in GPB, of course: if it is wrong (which I don't know) it must be fixed. Because if it is wrong, even once the slider is implemented, it will still be wrong.

For example, if you lower the slider so that on the grid you don't hear the other bikes too much, it is very likely that while racing you won't hear the bike in front of you (or behind you) enough. Said otherwise, it is far from sure that the slider will solve the entire problem.

Don't get me wrong: as many are reporting this problem, I'm confident there is some sort of problem (I never noticed it, but then I only raced in 990 and 600 events). I'm just arguing the slider may not be the right solution.

I'd suggest to forget about the thread "Suggestion and whishlist recap": since I've left my role, nobody has taken responsibility of it and, anyway, I'm not sure it has ever gathered a lot of attention from Piboso (at any rate, we didn't receive any feedback about it). So if there're requests to be pushed (e.g. sound issue, to-do list, ...), you'll probably be better of creating a new post in the "Suggestions and wishlist" section and hope Piboso has a look. Or maybe our new moderators could revamp the whole "Suggestion and whishlist recap" thing.

MaX.

P.S.
I disagree on the importance of the sound simulation: that's an essential component of bike and car simulators. We don't need sound reflections (that would be nice but maybe a bit on the heavy side in terms of CPU cost), but proper sound propagation is not too hard and is an absolute requirement (hell, probably even considering the wind speed and direction is not that hard).

[Stout Johnson]

Don't get me wrong: as many are reporting this problem, I'm confident there is some sort of problem (I never noticed it, but then I only raced in 990 and 600 events). I'm just arguing the slider may not be the right solution.

Good thing because, this is rather straightforward - many riders (including real life racers) report that one can hardly distinct one's own engine from others whereas in real life they can. So it is not as obvious as a mathematical proof, but still so very likely that it should be approached.

I disagree on the importance of the sound simulation: that's an essential component of bike and car simulators. We don't need sound reflections (that would be nice but maybe a bit on the heavy side in terms of CPU cost), but proper sound propagation is not too hard and is an absolute requirement (hell, probably even considering the wind speed and direction is not that hard).

I totally agree that we need a proper sound propagation model - otherwise we, who race regularly in GPB, would not bring it up so often. My point is: compared to the motorcycle dynamics, where I think we all agree we do not make any concessions to reality (luckily Piboso is the most hardcore enthusiast here), the benefit of possibly simulating all aspects of sound would cost much (precious development time of Piboso/CPU consumption) and would bring limited benefit. Whether the sound is simulated correctly in all aspects - e.g. when having headwinds then engines to your rear should be even less noticeable, wind distortion noises on helmet should be more noticeable etc. is rather a bonus then - that is all I am saying. You pretty much said the same as you stated, that you would make concessions concerning the sound reflections. But discussing what and what not would be nitpicking - let's focus on the important stuff.

Sound is very important, as stated many times, esp. as this is the main feedback in this virtual environment (compared to other sources of feedback when riding it rl) - BUT it would be huge step already if we at least could tell our engine apart from other's engine. And the sound slider would be an easy fix.
I totally agree that fixing the sound propagation model is the better way. And me as a hardcore enthusiast, if the sound is fixed, I do not need a slider. But your argument of not having a sound slider due to realism aspects, does not really pull as there are so many other things in GPB that are a much bigger concession to reality - that is all I am pointing at. Implementing a sound slider would be a rather harmless adjustment setting compared to other's that imo interfer with the realism approach. That is all I am saying.

(hell, probably even considering the wind speed and direction is not that hard).

Well, I guess we'd need a definition of what 'hard' is in that respect I was touching this issue during my studies (really only gracing it) - and imo I wouldn't call it easy really.
Just browse these....
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Sound_Propagation.html
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm
Especially the second source also discusses many misconceptions regarding the propagation of sound...

[HornetMaX]

I totally agree that fixing the sound propagation model is the better way. And me as a hardcore enthusiast, if the sound is fixed, I do not need a slider.

Perfect then ! Usual next steps (for Piboso) should then be: 1- validate there is a problem, 2- think about what the proper solution would be, 3- if nothing else works, see if the slider can help.
Starting for point 3 is not the good way IMO.

(hell, probably even considering the wind speed and direction is not that hard).

Well, I guess we'd need a definition of what 'hard' is in that respect I was touching this issue during my studies (really only gracing it) - and imo I wouldn't call it easy really.
Just browse these....
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Sound_Propagation.html
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm
Especially the second source also discusses many misconceptions regarding the propagation of sound...

Yes, it is very complex once you factor everything in, but the very basic stuff (no reflection, uniform wind, direct field etc) is manageable. Any (half decent) FPS has good positional sound.

MaX.

[Stout Johnson]

I totally agree that fixing the sound propagation model is the better way. And me as a hardcore enthusiast, if the sound is fixed, I do not need a slider.

Perfect then ! Usual next steps (for Piboso) should then be: 1- validate there is a problem, 2- think about what the proper solution would be, 3- if nothing else works, see if the slider can help.
Starting for point 3 is not the good way IMO.

(hell, probably even considering the wind speed and direction is not that hard).

Well, I guess we'd need a definition of what 'hard' is in that respect I was touching this issue during my studies (really only gracing it) - and imo I wouldn't call it easy really.
Just browse these....
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Sound_Propagation.html
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm
Especially the second source also discusses many misconceptions regarding the propagation of sound...

Yes, it is very complex once you factor everything in, but the very basic stuff (no reflection, uniform wind, direct field etc) is manageable. Any (half decent) FPS has good positional sound.

MaX.

Totally my opinion