Scotland

[HornetMaX]

Bedroom tax! Is that actually in force in scotland? That would be enough for me to vote yes if I was scottish.

It is. I even think the Scottish government asked london the permission to locally waive it (with cottish money, of course), and london, of course, said .. NO. 

This country is fu#ked! Uk is the laughing stock of europe.. If not the world! If scotland want out of the EU.. I envy them.

If Scotland got a referendum for independence then surly we can get one for in/out of the eu

Scotland wants to stay in the EU. It's England that has a referendum in 2017 to decide in/out of EU.

I mean, you live there and you don't know that ? That speaks a lot about how much the politics in England is far from its citizens ..

MaX.

[matty0l215]

Scotland wants to stay in the EU. It's England that has a referendum in 2017 to decide in/out of EU.

I mean, you live there and you don't know that ? That speaks a lot about how much the politics in England is far from its citizens ..

Ah, me not knowing is because i really don't give a toss whatever happens I know I'm never going to make a difference in the decision (One of my reasons I've got no intention of ever voting). Morons will lead this country for years to come, that is politics (at least UK politics).
And now i am bored of the subject So good night 

[BOBR6 84]

Lol sadly I agree.. No matter who is in power they all say one thing to get there, then do the same as the party before when they do.

UKIP are popular now because they vow to cap immigration! Thats all I care about at the moment..

The fact is though.. Conservative vowed to tackle that issue too. They wont stand up to the EU though!
Besides it makes the rich even richer so why would they?

[Hawk]

A word on Ukraine: Simple... I think we should give Putin a good kicking and kick his arse out of Ukraine(that includes Ukrainian Crimea). And if there are any Russians in the Ukraine who don't like it then they should quite simply go back home to Russia were they belong. If I was in France and didn't like the way it was governed I wouldn't expect the UK Armed forces to invade France and declare it part of the UK. LOL

The west and NATO's response to what Putin has done in Ukraine is absolutely pathetic! You can't appease people like Putin or he'll just take more and more.... We should've called his bluff. He's just a lying corrupt power hungry little Hitler!

It's not so "simple" when you consider that the anti-government protests in Ukraine were led by Nazists 
Dangerous nationalists, anti-semitic, that surely don't like and protect minorities ( like the russian-speaking ones ); and supported by part of the right-wing of the US: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause
Things are not so black and white, uh?

I agree, it's not so black and white as I was talking above, and the Ukranian government should've done more to crack down on the Nazi supporters hassling the Russian population. But still, that doesn't give Putin the right to invade Ukrainian sovereign territory and do a land grab. Also the Ukranian people had a right to decide their own destiny and I suspect that the Nazi's were only a small minority of those that wanted Ukraine to join Europe and NATO. Same as the Nazi supporters in UK, they make a big noise but in reality they are a relatively very small group of idiots.

As for American right-wing supporting the Nazi's - I don't think they were supporting the Nazi's, I mean by god that wouldn't go down very well in the USA, McCain would be strung up hung drawn and quartered for supporting Nazi's..... The Americans were just supporting the Ukranian peoples right to self determination.

Hawk.

[Hawk]

Lol sadly I agree.. No matter who is in power they all say one thing to get there, then do the same as the party before when they do.

UKIP are popular now because they vow to cap immigration! Thats all I care about at the moment..

The fact is though.. Conservative vowed to tackle that issue too. They wont stand up to the EU though!
Besides it makes the rich even richer so why would they?

I agree.... So it's time to vote for a totally different party to govern the UK. UKIP get my vote, simply because they will get us out of Europe. It's not that I'm against European people or countries, but the EU bureaucrats are getting too big for their boots... The EU was initially created for making trade between the EU member countries free and easy; now they want to dictate a sovereign countries policy on what countries can and cannot do in law and within their own borders; to me that's when the EU lost my support.

But I guess the usual dumbo's who vote with family and party tradition will win the day as usual.. so those people deserve the political party and type of Gov they vote for and shouldn't complain when things go wrong.  It's time for a big change from the main three parties, so let's give UKIP a chance. 

[Hawk]

As for Scotland. No surprise really but I think they're going to bottle it..

grT 

Lol.... It's looking like you were correct Tracey. 

Hawk.

[BOBR6 84]

As for Scotland. No surprise really but I think they're going to bottle it..

grT 

Lol.... It's looking like you were correct Tracey. 

Hawk.

Lol yep 

David cameron is lucky in 2 ways!

Days of old the person responsible for loosing parts of the monarchs sovereignty would be sent to the tower of london To be tortured!

Lovely! Bring it back  bunch of tossers lol

[BOBR6 84]

Unofficial results have it NO vote winning!

Have scottland really thought this through haha

What about the british army and special forces? If we split wouldnt all the scottish soldiers be kicked out?
How would that work I wonder?
NHS hospitals! Would they simply belong to scotland?

EU. They joined as part of britain! Would they have to re-apply? They wouldnt stand a chance until they built their own econemy up surely?
What about all the scotts living all over the uk? Would they have to go back and apply for residence?
Huge task!

[girlracerTracey]

I agree, it's not so black and white as I was talking above, and the Ukranian government should've done more to crack down on the Nazi supporters hassling the Russian population. But still, that doesn't give Putin the right to invade Ukrainian sovereign territory and do a land grab. Also the Ukranian people had a right to decide their own destiny and I suspect that the Nazi's were only a small minority of those that wanted Ukraine to join Europe and NATO. Same as the Nazi supporters in UK, they make a big noise but in reality they are a relatively very small group of idiots.

Precisely when and how did Putin invade any territory within the Ukraine? Can anybody provide a date when the tanks rolled over the border?

Russia and the Ukraine had a decade's old joint defence agreement which allowed up to 25,000 Russian military and naval personal to be present in the Ukraine at any one time. Russia's crucially important Black Sea port, at Sevastopol, remained the location of the Russian Black Sea Fleet right up to the present day. Hardly an invasion.

What land-grab? The people of the Crimea, under extremely difficult and dangerous circumstances following the U.S. and Western backed coup d'etat in Kiev by far right nationalist and Neo-Nazi factions quite understandably, bearing in mind the people of the Crimea are overwhelming ethnic Russian in origin, voted for the Crimea to accede to the Russian Federation. This was done peaceably and democratically. Unlike the illegal Western backed coup d'etat in Kiev which violently toppled the democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych.

The point is that the illegitimate "Ukrainian government" post coup d'etat was comprised of a number of leading figures from the far right and nationalist parties within the Ukraine. These individuals held high office within the Ukrainian Coalition. Why would they crack down on themselves?   

As for American right-wing supporting the Nazi's - I don't think they were supporting the Nazi's, I mean by god that wouldn't go down very well in the USA, McCain would be strung up hung drawn and quartered for supporting Nazi's..... The Americans were just supporting the Ukranian peoples right to self determination.

Of course Victoria Nuland et al at the State Department in Washington were supporting known Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine. That is accepted fact not theory. The U.S. state Department have also knowingly been supporting and funding Islamic Extremists in Libya & Syria. Why? Because it suits their geo-political agenda to do so. The irony of course is that until recently if one was situated in Syria, as a Islamic Rebel fighter, then the U.S. State Department funded and armed you and saw you as an ally. If said Islamic Fighter crossed the border with his U.S. supplied weaponry into Iraq and became a fighter for ISIS he suddenly became the enemy of the U.S. and the West..

My view is that what is going on in the the Ukraine is a proxy war being fought for geo-politcal reasons. The motives of the EU and the West seem to have little to do with supporting the Ukrainian people's right to self-determination. I think that's just a cover for what is actually going on in the Ukraine. Also whilst talking of people's rights to self-determination does not such a concept apply to the people of the Crimea?

For me there is a parallel between what is going on in the Ukraine and the Cuban Missile Crisis. There is now a very real possibility of nuclear missiles being sited at some point of time in the future on Ukrainian soil. If the Ukraine does in the future become part of NATO. So U.S. missiles could potentially be sited right on Russia's borders. Just think back to the nuclear stand-off that took place in the early 1960's when Russia placed missiles on the Island of Cuba. People actually began to think the unthinkable that this could herald the end of the world. Until JFK and Khrushchev sorted things out via the hotline from Russia to Moscow for the good of humanity. Now the same prospect is facing Russia.. This is insane!

So much for the promise made to Gorbachev at the time of the dismantlement of the Soviet Union in 1990 that there would be no further NATO expansion Eastwards. That promise has been broken long ago. The encirclement of Russia by NATO continues.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html

I would just like to say I do not feel that I am biased either way on these issues. I honestly just try to reach an impartial viewpoint courtesy of the independent press and independent news outlets. I have pretty much given up on the mainstream media if I am honest. I would also like to think that I am also not a conspiracy theorist. At the end of the day however everyone should be free to voice their opinions and views on these important matters without censure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sometimes people just have to politely agree to disagree I think.    Bottom line for me is that I just don't want the world to end prematurely..!  I would very much like to sample a finished version of gpbikes before the unthinkable happens..!

Back on topic I notice the result in Scotland is in the negative. I have to say I am not that surprised if I am absolutely honest. I would have been quite shocked if the United Kingdom had shrunk dramatically this morning.

grT 

[HornetMaX]

UKIP get my vote, simply because they will get us out of Europe.

As if UK has ever been really part of EU ... the UK contribution to the whole EU debate sums up to bragging about this or that economical policy (most of the time disputing something to France).
For sure I've not heard a lot from the UK when the subject was the fight against tax heavens ...

Again, I'm not a big fan of the current EU, but if you join you join, you don't half-join or a quarter-join ... too easy.

As for Scotland. No surprise really but I think they're going to bottle it..

grT 

I guess we have a winner here

MaX.

P.S.
Now wait a second ... Piboso, you nasty manipulator ... you threw this bomb in the forum just to distract us from the only real and capital question: when is beta6 coming out ? 

[Hawk]

@Tracey: Okay... Putin may not have blatantly invaded the Ukraine, but he certainly did it by proxy using his soldiers as mercenaries and Russian weaponry and supplies to back them up. Only yesterday there was a poor Russian soldiers mother saying that her Russian soldier son had been ordered to go and fight in the Ukraine in an unofficial status(as a mercenary), so in effect Putin did invade the Ukraine but did it in a way that was difficult for the political world to react against. Putin knew very well what he was doing....

As for the Crimean populations right to self determination - Well yes of course they should have the right to self determination, but certainly not have the right become part of Russia; and Putin should have told them that it's not Russia's place to adopt the Crimean peninsular as part of Russia, that they have to govern themselves. Besides that, the likelihood of the poll being unbiased and uncorrupted in that kind of volatile environment are very slim indeed, so you have to ask yourself, "Was is really a true representation of the Crimean people?", their must have been so many non-Russian people who were just too afraid to go and vote against the violent masses at the time.

I guess all countries play the game of geo-politics and support their enemies to attain a geo political objective. Overall this shows us all just how far away we are from a united world of peace... Maybe in another thousand years we will have reached a mental maturity that will allow world peace and harmony to happen.... That is if we don't destroy ourselves in the meantime.
To be honest, if I was the Gods(extra-terrestrials), I would wipe the slate clean and start their experiment all over again. They must be very disappointed with their work, or else I can only imagine they are having a good laugh at our stupidity. Lol

Hawk.

PS: Do you write novels for a living? 

[matty0l215]

P.S.
Now wait a second ... Piboso, you nasty manipulator ... you threw this bomb in the forum just to distract us from the only real and capital question: when is beta6 coming out ? 

Now that is something i am very interested in  Piboso you utter bastered 

[Hawk]

UKIP get my vote, simply because they will get us out of Europe.

As if UK has ever been really part of EU ... the UK contribution to the whole EU debate sums up to bragging about this or that economical policy (most of the time disputing something to France).
For sure I've not heard a lot from the UK when the subject was the fight against tax heavens ...

Doesn't everyone dispute against the French over EU laws? LOL.

Again, I'm not a big fan of the current EU, but if you join you join, you don't half-join or a quarter-join ... too easy.

The EU is slowing but surely stripping it's members of their sovereign right to govern their own countries
We joined when the EU was just supposed to make trading easier between the EU members, not to have some jumped up dicks in Brussels tell us what we can and cannot do within our own sovereign borders that has nothing to do with EU trading.

P.S.
Now wait a second ... Piboso, you nasty manipulator ... you threw this bomb in the forum just to distract us from the only real and capital question: when is beta6 coming out ? 

Lol 

Hawk.

[girlracerTracey]

PS: Do you write novels for a living? 

LOL! Well unfortunately no one pays me for this verbiage.  I don't think they ever would either..

But no joking apart this is a very interesting subject and it is pleasing that we can discuss such serious issues without falling out with each other.

As a parting shot all I would say is that Putin is of course defending Russia's interests. And Russia has long established and extremely important strategical interests in the Crimea. What would the U.S.A. do if faced with the same dilemma? Also look at the fate of the ethnic Russians in the East of the Ukraine..and its not over yet. A lucky escape for the inhabitants of the Crimea in so many ways. The Director of the CIA is making quite regular trips to Kiev so one might argue that interference in the Ukraine's affairs works both ways..

But all this is conveniently ignoring the elephant in the room in my view. The reason I feel the Ukrainian crisis exists, just as the crisis in the Middle East exists, is not really about the crises in the M.E. or the Ukraine..it is because the entire Western financial system is in a state of near collapse.

The West seeing that the Eurasian nations, in particular Russia, China and India, through the BRICS process, through the new "Silk Road", through collaboration with Latin America, with Africa is creating an entirely new & predominant economic system. Based upon harmony of interests, based on development of nuclear power and based upon trade in all important commodities. Including oil and gas. This development and this peaceful collaboration of nations is seen as a danger to the Western stratus quo & the incumbent dollar financial system.  My real fear is that there are those in positions of power and influence in the West who are willing to go to war rather than allowing a new world economic order to come into being. Scary as the prospect is that is what I personally believe we are now seeing being played out on the world stage.

Anyway, I'll shut-up now. 

What is clear with regard to Scotland is how divided on this fundamentally important issue the Scots are. I imagine there are many disappointed souls in Scotland this morning.. But the decision has been made and the decision must be respected by all concerned I guess.

grT   



   

[PiBoSo]

P.S.
Now wait a second ... Piboso, you nasty manipulator ... you threw this bomb in the forum just to distract us from the only real and capital question: when is beta6 coming out ?