Full motion simulator

[doubledragoncc]

AND once again it means everyone HAS to have Oculus rift!!!

I dont want to stick one of those on y head when Im ridin!!! I dont want to have to buyone either!!!

I want to give a system that works on its own with no other gimmicks needed and no extra cash either!!!

Yes GPB is probably the only  one to make the right codes thats why I stick with it as well as it being the only true sim!!!

DD

[HornetMaX]

I think the big 'cheat' used by a lot of commercial motion platforms is that you only sense changes in acceleration and the eye can fool you into sensing the constant velocity movements. This limits the total travel required in the platform itself. 

Yeah but on a bike it seems weird: to turn right the bike leans right while a car rolls a bit left. To "make you feel the force" the platform would roll left, i.e. the opposite of the bike lean. Now, I do understand the the rift will help but still ...

Anyway, as said, once the hardware is ready Furious could test.

MaX.

[Nitrox]

AND once again it means everyone HAS to have Oculus rift!!!

I dont want to stick one of those on y head when Im ridin!!! I dont want to have to buyone either!!!

Oculus Rift would not be the expensive part of this system, i guess

[doubledragoncc]

But an Oculus is still additional expense and not for everyone. A system should be able to give what is wanted without additional hardware as it is then dependent on it and means the system alone does not work!!!

[LOOPATELI]

this type of simulator is not for everyone, that's the thing

[cdx]

For a full motion simulator I think Oculus Rift is pretty much a must have. It would greatly enhance the experience.

But a good full motion simulator is something that would take a whole room and tens of thousands of pounds. Also, it would take tons of time developing the software side. It will be great for WSBK and Moto GP racers when it's done in several years.

However, right now, for me plus a few thousand people who'd happily buy it, what is needed is just a good input controller that costs not more than a good steering wheel. What I've seen from doulbledragon would be perfect. First, really good handlebars to make riding intuitive, then people can build from there. Monitor, Rift, it can and should work with both.

Consumer electronics develop at lightning speed because tons of people use it and money just pours in. Have a consumer product to get money for further development and you can do crazy stuff. If you try to start with the crazy stuff you'll probably spend years begging investors for money to develop a product for a handful of professionals. And in the end the general consumer (me) ends up still not having a controller. 

In short, all you crazy skilled developers, could you please make me a good controller, make tons of money, and in a couple of years start and finish a full motion sim instead of years on end trying to make a full motion sim?

[grimm]

Consumer electronics develop at lightning speed because tons of people use it and money just pours in. Have a consumer product to get money for further development and you can do crazy stuff. If you try to start with the crazy stuff you'll probably spend years begging investors for money to develop a product for a handful of professionals. And in the end the general consumer (me) ends up still not having a controller. 

That right there hits nail square on the head. I remember when steering wheels for the PC were first becoming a big thing, they started out sorta flimsy and not all that great, but over the years developed into some very useful and very durable products. If for one moment, anyone really that has or could develop a moto controller just took the time to build the most bare bones, simplistic thing possible without a regard for fit and finish, but for durability and effect, the few of us that have really wanted a controller could have one. If it took off and became something in the long run where hundreds of orders a year poured in, then polishing and finishing the product into full production would be ideal and a company truly could take off. Gotta walk before you run and all that jazz.

I'm still far from intelligent enough about technology to build my own rig so I too am stuck waiting for something to take off so I can put an order in. GP Bikes on a Yamaha MS-1 moto controller, although cheap and pretty much useless to most, was the coolest experience I've had sim gaming and would love to have something far more realistic in my hands. Direct steer would be incredible with actual handlebars.

[doubledragoncc]

@cdx

I got your message and will email some design sheets with measurements and cutting angles today. As I said when we met I have a control board for you. You got it right about a basic system and being able to add to it thats why I designed the MTE boxes for people to do that. The most important thing people need to start is the steering system which can be mounted on a desk/table top and also be able to mount it on a frame if space and money allows. The
universal headstem design will allow the user to have the pivot for the bars on either a vertical or horizontal plain so they have the choise of which to use.
The MTE boxes mean that the hard part of building a control system is taken out of the equation as all you need is the basic controls that are simple and hook them up to the MTE box by cable or push/pull rod to turn the mechanical action into an electronic one sent to the control box. Leo's BU0836X box costs 50 GBP and gives 8 analog axis, 32 digital button and an 8way POV input. It can use potentiometers, HAL sensors and Load Cells plus rotary switches with no soldering needed!!! Still working on the docks to send Leo that he asked for so hopefully after Christmas will have good news.

Keep it sunny side up

DD

[G0G]

Hi Piboso...
You are doing greta things still!
http://youtu.be/xgNJ8WeKeLE

This is how GP-Bikes looks with my home-made tracking headset. If I were on a motion simulator bike, I'd be in heaven. It's WAY better to ride GPB when you're actually, psychically  leaning into corners and turning your head with your lean, looking off into the apexes and chicanes, next best thing to riding for real.. Tracking gets my backing. This is what my personal POV looks like on my real bike, my VR headset and your GP-Bikes. Nothing is closer.  
Excuse the quality of this vid, just messing with my gopro. I've been meaning to make an effort. Soon as I wanted to record my riding, I became a crashing machine but there's enough here to understand the realistic view that is inherently possible with GPB..

This Beta(6) does not allow me to view from the proper angle through the corners because the rider is too upright, denying me angles possible in other Betas(my older vids show them and the Redding photo shows it) and the higher angle in Beta6 is making me conservative because of the difference in rider's positions and reduced angles... It's quite a nice thing to be low and snug through a corner and switch through a chicane to be snug and low through the other corner and exit.

I am using mousetracking here in this session, not my headset. I am posting this here so makers know what the actual POV is. This is what is looks like. When you see in this video, me abruptly SNAP back into center position after a corner, well.. that sucks, looks like a glitch but it's me resetting center to be accurate into next corner.. For racing with out headset, I would love it just to slowly return to center left right only, not up and down(as I am often looking through undulations and DONT WANT my height angle reset.... it causes a centering back on both axis, looks bad if you're going up/downhill etc), and again, resetting it to center should be WAY slower as no rider can return to center of racing bike that quickly, nor would he/she want to. This wouldn't be an issue with a motion simulator as you would have the bike to lean on and a physical way to find your bike's center..
[Please let me know if there is a way of making my config slow the rider's 'centering cockpit reset'(default right mouse click). Maybe even stop the up/down part of the reset, leaving a smooth-centering , fluid, realistic realignment/reorientation after corners.. Riding in this mousetracking style requires knowing the center of the bike, for precision cornering, thus my need to 'reset'.. Wont be an issue with a head-tracking headset and bike.

The Scott Redding photo example:

IMO: Anyone building a sim bike for GP-Bikes should realize the new way a rider races at the top levels. What the rider actually sees from these newer, 'leaner' positions. It is not 1990 anymore. We do not navigate with reference points from the headstock. Interactive, tracking headsets are going to blossom and old, upright angles are not what I want to be limited to..



Having a synced bike and headset for GPB?.. hmmmm It will happen.. Finally, people would see this isnt so easy. The lower one gets 'off and over', the trickier it is, the sharpest cornering involves this position you see Scott Redding in! The cockpit is so far out of his line of sight and eyesight, it is impossible for him to see his own clipons, let alone, his cockpit. In reality, it feels like the bike isnt there.. There are no visual references for the corner coming from the bike! Learning to navigate through corners in this position is a visual challenge of the highest order, in real life and GPB.  Its a skill all the top real riders show us every race, we could at least simulate it to see what they see. It is what is going to make a motion simulator work... leaning! Hope you put a riding position update in soon.

It is impossible to simulate this rider POV with a monitor stuck in front... period. Try to imagine seeing  Redding trying to navigate through this situation by looking up to a monitor on the handlebars,, makes no sense and would be impossible. Those designs need to go the way of the Dodo, yesterday. Looking around the corners(off to your left and right/up and down.... simulating what is REALLY done, is the easy, cheaper and near future. GPB is not a Sunday cruise simulation with 22% lean angles(pivoting head view). Who wants to see what Redding and Márquez see when they lean like this? Who wants to learn their elbow scraping POVs? I do, why would I not? Thank You for the realistic views Piboso. I hope in the future you will let me see my arms and bike in my tracking headset. Let me have my face close to the track through the big turns. Elbow down.

Hopefully, I will soon start building myself.

Good luck to any and all fabricators.

[doubledragoncc]

Hi GOG, great input there bro. It is these points that make it so hard to build a rig for bikes. The biggest problem will be cost. The tech is there but at a very high cost. This is my biggest problem and I am in full agreement about the Oculus and such devices but its still more cost. As you say, it will be the norm in a few years, but only when prices come down.

I am trying to do things on a basic level, so that the initial point is to get a set of handlebars and real controls in everyones hands, then take it a step at a time to build on it and get a controller that feels and works right. I am designing all my components and systems to be fully modular so that people can start with the basics and then add to it as they have the money. It will be a long road but we will win lol.

I hope to reveal my full product line early next year and hope it will be the start of real bike racing sims with real controls.

Keep it sunny side up guys

DD

[G0G]

Hey man!
Cant wait to see your progress... Wish I could just order one of your bikes and an Occulus Headset!   

[doubledragoncc]

All you need is MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

DD

[doubledragoncc]

Hey GOG were you not on another forum to do with SBKX  cockpit riders or something?

If it was you Hi again dude.

DD

[h106frp]

Not sure why, but the onboard view in SBKX gives no real feeling of speed or handling of a high power bike even with no assists, feels like riding a push bike around the track, sad, i was hoping for great things when i bought it

[doubledragoncc]

I only use the MotoGP and SBK series to test that my system works with them and write the ini files for XBOX360 config files which Milestone and Capcom insist is needed to have anything but a gamepad work in their games.

You cant substitute GP Bikes!!!

DD