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Aprilia RSW500 by GPB ITA (physics) and Franco Pizzagalli (3d)

Started by fabio93bg, October 30, 2015, 07:57:45 pm

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Alby46

It's true but all lap times in gp bikes are faster than real life, for example in beta 6c it was possible to lap a 1.25 at victoria with the 2003 rcv, while the fastest lap in 2003 was 1.31. For the rsw we only used real data, the rest belongs to gpbikes's physics
Still riding a 50cc, but enjoying it :)

C21

Quoteit is completely different to the varese500.. In fact if we race both bikes together the varese will not stand a chance.

That was the reason to develop the own physic of the bike. It was not intended to race against the Varese or other "old" GP500 derivates. Thay won´t have a chance.

QuoteHow can this be? Is piboso's bike way off the mark??

That´s a good question...but to say it first...no Piboso´s Varese is not off the mark.
let´s  take a comparison:
(Attention: I don´t want to rate the MOD done by GPItalia , they always do great work and the bikes rides fantastic! I´m a neutral spectator and would only shed some light onto it)

1) Tyres
Although the tyres are named identically they are different. In B7b tyres of Varese consist of a lot more variables then ones on the RSW500.
The physical structure (let say it this way) of the tyre is different.
The dry and wet grip factor is still the same between both bikes.

2) physics (cfg file)
RSW500 is about 15kg lighter then Varese(!).
Basic engine values are identically. (in my opinion the the RSW should have a higher inertia then the VArese but...)
Masses are corrected in the way the Varese is calculated.
The main difference is in the steering.
The steering physics are way different between both bikes creating a substantial different feeling.
Suspension is still the same on both bikes.

3) geom (bikeed)
- RSW did not use ground clearence, seat height, pressure center2 for calculation.
- Aerodynamic center is higher and more front based then on VArese.
Using Bikeed the geom is not 100% accurate. If you open the VArese.geom all points are where they should be acc. Bikeed.
On the RSW are some points out of center , did not match the 3d graphic. Rear suspension mass is more backward then on the Varese.
Does it make a big effect? Don´t think so.

4) engine file:
RSW: 109.6kw/12045 rpm - 92.1Nm/10383 rpm - difference max power-maxtourque -> 1652 rpm
VArese: 140kw/12466 rpm - 108.3Nm/12100 rpm - difference max power-maxtourque -> 366 rpm
The Varese engine is way more peaky then the RSW one. It´s a lot easier to drive the RSW. It has a smooth power band compared to the Varese all or nothing powerband.

Conclusion:
The RSW is really good modelled and the physic is great. AND it´s all within the specific values of GPB. No values out of bound or incorretly converted taking the Varese as base (as it was done with the KTM).
Why is the RSW that fast?
Because it is a lot easier to drive.
There is no magic done to the RSW making it that good. The bike is good out of the box and 5 years younger then the V594.
Build a 1999 NSR500 with decent physics and you have a competitor.
Justmy2cent  :)
# Member of the CAWS Racing Team #


ALEale

Quote from: C21 on November 02, 2015, 08:48:41 am
Quoteit is completely different to the varese500.. In fact if we race both bikes together the varese will not stand a chance.

That was the reason to develop the own physic of the bike. It was not intended to race against the Varese or other "old" GP500 derivates. Thay won´t have a chance.

QuoteHow can this be? Is piboso's bike way off the mark??

That´s a good question...but to say it first...no Piboso´s Varese is not off the mark.
let´s  take a comparison:
(Attention: I don´t want to rate the MOD done by GPItalia , they always do great work and the bikes rides fantastic! I´m a neutral spectator and would only shed some light onto it)

1) Tyres
Although the tyres are named identically they are different. In B7b tyres of Varese consist of a lot more variables then ones on the RSW500.
The physical structure (let say it this way) of the tyre is different.
The dry and wet grip factor is still the same between both bikes.

2) physics (cfg file)
RSW500 is about 15kg lighter then Varese(!).
Basic engine values are identically. (in my opinion the the RSW should have a higher inertia then the VArese but...)
Masses are corrected in the way the Varese is calculated.
The main difference is in the steering.
The steering physics are way different between both bikes creating a substantial different feeling.
Suspension is still the same on both bikes.

3) geom (bikeed)
- RSW did not use ground clearence, seat height, pressure center2 for calculation.
- Aerodynamic center is higher and more front based then on VArese.
Using Bikeed the geom is not 100% accurate. If you open the VArese.geom all points are where they should be acc. Bikeed.
On the RSW are some points out of center , did not match the 3d graphic. Rear suspension mass is more backward then on the Varese.
Does it make a big effect? Don´t think so.

4) engine file:
RSW: 109.6kw/12045 rpm - 92.1Nm/10383 rpm - difference max power-maxtourque -> 1652 rpm
VArese: 140kw/12466 rpm - 108.3Nm/12100 rpm - difference max power-maxtourque -> 366 rpm
The Varese engine is way more peaky then the RSW one. It´s a lot easier to drive the RSW. It has a smooth power band compared to the Varese all or nothing powerband.

Conclusion:
The RSW is really good modelled and the physic is great. AND it´s all within the specific values of GPB. No values out of bound or incorretly converted taking the Varese as base (as it was done with the KTM).
Why is the RSW that fast?
Because it is a lot easier to drive.
There is no magic done to the RSW making it that good. The bike is good out of the box and 5 years younger then the V594.
Build a 1999 NSR500 with decent physics and you have a competitor.
Justmy2cent  :)



no words, just quoting :) thanks


Napalm Nick

Which is ANOTHER good reason to use the folder name structure that Matty has suggested for the bike mod.

Because it has the bikes YEAR in the description - easier to find equal races in a category.

Please adopt this idea it is such a simple solution to avoid a jumbled mess of bikes.  :-\
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

ALEale

Quote from: Napalm Nick on November 02, 2015, 11:15:09 am
Which is ANOTHER good reason to use the folder name structure that Matty has suggested for the bike mod.

Because it has the bikes YEAR in the description - easier to find equal races in a category.

Please adopt this idea it is such a simple solution to avoid a jumbled mess of bikes.  :-\


Will be modified as soon as possible

Thanks

Napalm Nick

"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

fabio93bg


C21

# Member of the CAWS Racing Team #


ALEale


ALEale


BOBR6 84

Ok, thanks for explaining C21, Cheers!

Amazing job then guys  ;D

Vini

Just wanted to say that I don't find the RSW to be much faster than the V4.
The corner speed is slightly higher (which is realistic) and the braking is a little bit better but it also lacks a good amount of power.
At Silverstone my times were almost identical and I could easily keep up with the guys on RSW.

Why are you all so much faster with RSW? :D

BOBR6 84

Quote from: vin97 on November 02, 2015, 05:33:45 pm
Just wanted to say that I don't find the RSW to be much faster than the V4.
The corner speed is slightly higher (which is realistic) and the braking is a little bit better but it also lacks a good amount of power.
At Silverstone my times were almost identical and I could easily keep up with the guys on RSW.

Why are you all so much faster with RSW? :D


to be honest i was just shocked at how good the bike handles.. compared to the varese the RSW is on rails.. absolutely no fear of crashing.

so.. i guess beta7 is a BIG step forward then.  :)

CapeDoctor

great job with the smoke in the latest release, guys - me likey!  8)

C21

QuoteJust wanted to say that I don't find the RSW to be much faster than the V4.
The corner speed is slightly higher (which is realistic) and the braking is a little bit better but it also lacks a good amount of power.
At Silverstone my times were almost identical and I could easily keep up with the guys on RSW.

It really depends on the track.
There are tracks were the Varese and other V4 will be faster then the RSW (Mugello, Monza,....) and there are tracks were the handling and better power curve / throttle response come in to account seeing the RSW in front.
Like in real life.
In my opinion it´s easier to ride a fast lap with the RSW then on the GP500-V4.
Maybe it´s time for a 2000 NSR V4 physic to show the difference  ;)
# Member of the CAWS Racing Team #