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Auto-Clutch and Engine-Brake settings affecting each other.......

Started by Hawk, November 06, 2015, 07:08:23 PM

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Hawk

Bike Physics settings:
When increasing the RPM range on the  "Auto-Clutch" to get a decent standing start it is effecting the strength of the "Engine Brake" too...... Surely we should be able to alter one without affecting the other?

Any ideas anyone?

Hawk.

doNico

well, i noticed something similar .. i think. If you use the engine brake on the 500 rsw, you should NOT downshift all the gears ... I used to trailbrake into a corner with a high gear (more engine brake) and shiftet down while releasing the brake (short before turning for the apex) ... hard to describe. I noticed something like a brake delay ... like the clutch is slipping trough and the engine brake doesnt take effect ...
well, did you get what i mean? :P

~doN

Hawk

Quote from: doNico on November 06, 2015, 11:30:12 PM
well, i noticed something similar .. i think. If you use the engine brake on the 500 rsw, you should NOT downshift all the gears ... I used to trailbrake into a corner with a high gear (more engine brake) and shiftet down while releasing the brake (short before turning for the apex) ... hard to describe. I noticed something like a brake delay ... like the clutch is slipping trough and the engine brake doesnt take effect ...
well, did you get what i mean? :P

~doN

Must admit I haven't noticed that on the RSW500, but I don't use rear brakes right now.  :-\
I know there has been issues on bikes before(I think it's a bike physics issue rather than a GPB programme issue), were when trying to change down gears while applying the rear brakes was difficult and delayed if not sometimes impossible..... Is this what you mean?

If this is something your experiencing it would be a good idea to post about the issue on the forum thread were the bike was released; then the bike physics authors can note it and take a look at the issue.  :)

Personally I don't use rear brakes because of my controller button functionality - I use a joystick and don't have another analogue stick/trigger axis to use for rear brakes.

Hawk.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on November 06, 2015, 07:08:23 PM
Bike Physics settings:
When increasing the RPM range on the  "Auto-Clutch" to get a decent standing start it is effecting the strength of the "Engine Brake" too...... Surely we should be able to alter one without affecting the other?
Not sure I understand what you mean here. Where are you "increasing the RPM range on the auto-clutch" ?

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on November 07, 2015, 09:03:07 AM
Quote from: Hawk on November 06, 2015, 07:08:23 PM
Bike Physics settings:
When increasing the RPM range on the  "Auto-Clutch" to get a decent standing start it is effecting the strength of the "Engine Brake" too...... Surely we should be able to alter one without affecting the other?
Not sure I understand what you mean here. Where are you "increasing the RPM range on the auto-clutch" ?

Yes it's the auto-clutch. When we raise the RPM range to get good standing starts using the auto-clutch it badly effects the Engine braking(reduces it to 2 stroke levels).

Any ideas Max?  :)

Hawk.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 12:10:15 AM
Yes it's the auto-clutch. When we raise the RPM range to get good standing starts using the auto-clutch it badly effects the Engine braking(reduces it to 2 stroke levels).
Cause the hardcore-sim gang is using auto-clutch ? What's next ? Auto-shift ? You deceive me Hawk ... :)

OK, jokes aside, I can't help too much but I'd say that if you raise the auto-clutch RPM range too much, you arrive into ranges that are used not only when starting from stand, but also while riding. So interference is to be expected.

On my side, no auto-clutch: problem solved :)

MaX.

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 02:40:52 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 12:10:15 AM
Yes it's the auto-clutch. When we raise the RPM range to get good standing starts using the auto-clutch it badly effects the Engine braking(reduces it to 2 stroke levels).
Cause the hardcore-sim gang is using auto-clutch ? What's next ? Auto-shift ? You deceive me Hawk ... :)

OK, jokes aside, I can't help too much but I'd say that if you raise the auto-clutch RPM range too much, you arrive into ranges that are used not only when starting from stand, but also while riding. So interference is to be expected.

On my side, no auto-clutch: problem solved :)

MaX.

Hahaha..... No deceptions Max. Lol  ;D

We're talking about modding bikes, so if it's supposed to work then it needs to work to be functional for those that use it, right? ;D

But how can the setting for the auto-clutch interfere with the Engine Brake? Seems to me something is not right in the programme logic there?

To say it's expected with the RPM range to start a bike with auto-clutch from a standing start just doesn't make sense to me. That's like saying that producing the RPM to make a manual clutch standing start is expected to interfere with the engine brake. Would you buy a bike that did that? I don't think so. Lol

Hawk.

doNico

well, i noticed it on every bike ...just try to not downshift and use the brake as long as you can ... try to shift down while turning for the corner.

~doN

HornetMaX

How much did you raise the auto-clutch range ?

The whole auto-clutch thing is a cheapo workaround for people unable to use a manual clutch: it's not supposed to allow you to do flash starts at the green light ...

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 04:34:50 PM
How much did you raise the auto-clutch range ?

The whole auto-clutch thing is a cheapo workaround for people unable to use a manual clutch: it's not supposed to allow you to do flash starts at the green light ...

If I remember rightly it was a range of 3000 - 9000RPM for Auto-Clutch.

Well I disagree with the attitude that the auto-clutch is a cheap workaround therefore no need for it to work properly. How would you feel if you the electric starter didn't work on your bike and the mechanic said to you that starters are a lazy peoples way to start an engine so we didn't bother to fix it; Use the kick starter instead. Hehe  ;D

Your correct. The auto-clutch isn't to allow for flash starts, but a basic auto-clutch(which this one is) can never replace the manual control of a race start a human can bring to it anyway. But an auto-clutch that does a reasonable job of starting from stand still is more than acceptable. Some bikes are just pathetic when trying to get the bike moving from a stand still using the auto-clutch; it's like the auto-clutch is used on an engine with the power of a lawnmower engine. Lol.  :P
This should be a problem the bike physics modders can sort out without it affecting the engine brake in my opinion. But above all surely it shows something wrong in, as I've said above, the programme logic?

Hawk.

HornetMaX

9000RPM, way too much (I don't even need to ask for which bike it was, it's too much for any of them).

I don't know how it's implemented exactly, but I'd sat that you're trying to make the auto-clutch thing do something it's not designed to do.

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 05:27:38 PM
9000RPM, way too much (I don't even need to ask for which bike it was, it's too much for any of them).

I don't know how it's implemented exactly, but I'd sat that you're trying to make the auto-clutch thing do something it's not designed to do.

A max RPM of 9000RPM when slipping the clutch - Too much?! Are you kidding me? I've slipped a clutch a lot higher than that before when making a race start. Lol

Hawk

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 05:33:42 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 05:27:38 PM
9000RPM, way too much (I don't even need to ask for which bike it was, it's too much for any of them).

I don't know how it's implemented exactly, but I'd sat that you're trying to make the auto-clutch thing do something it's not designed to do.

A max RPM of 9000RPM when slipping the clutch - Too much?! Are you kidding me? I've slipped a clutch a lot higher than that before when making a race start. Lol
Too much for the auto-clutch, not to get a good start manually (which of course involves slipping the clutch at high rpms).

Again, the auto-clutch is not designed to give you a decent start, but only to avoid stalling the engine. You're trying to make it do something it can't.

Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 06:32:07 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 05:33:42 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 05:27:38 PM
9000RPM, way too much (I don't even need to ask for which bike it was, it's too much for any of them).

I don't know how it's implemented exactly, but I'd sat that you're trying to make the auto-clutch thing do something it's not designed to do.

A max RPM of 9000RPM when slipping the clutch - Too much?! Are you kidding me? I've slipped a clutch a lot higher than that before when making a race start. Lol
Too much for the auto-clutch, not to get a good start manually (which of course involves slipping the clutch at high rpms).

Again, the auto-clutch is not designed to give you a decent start, but only to avoid stalling the engine. You're trying to make it do something it can't.

Then it needs redesigning to give a decent start(note were not talking about giving a good race start here); just to get any bike running along again within 3-4 secs would be great.

But above all it should not effect the operation of the engine brake. This is what I cannot fathom out?  Surely a bug? ::)

Hawk.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 11:37:19 PM
But above all it should not effect the operation of the engine brake. This is what I cannot fathom out?  Surely a bug? ::)
I think that if you've set the auto-clutch upper limit at 9000RPM, each time your RPM fall below that, the clutch will disengage progressively, from fully engaged at 9000RPM to fully disengaged at your auto-clutch lower RPM limit. So you lose your engine brake because you're actually using the clutch.