Brexit or not ?

[Stout Johnson]

Now this seems quite interesting. A CNBC poll suggests that nearly half of Brexit supporters think the referendum is rigged. Quite am interesting phenomenon.

since the election was obviously not rigged, it means that half of the brexit supporters are probably people who prefer believing in unproven speculation instead of facts.

The fact is that the Earth hasn't the resources to provide everyone in this world with the living standards that the major powers on this planet enjoy, and sooner or later conflict will be inevitable unless the system changes [...]

That is where I totally agree. But sectionalism like Brexit surely won't help with this problem. The EU in general (with all its problems) is something very much advanced imho and I think it is a sad day to have Britain opt out of it. In some age in the future, things like national borders, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, language etc will only be marginal important - in some hundred years there will be something like a collective government, collective laws and collective rules for distribution of wealth in the world - something like a WU world union, I am pretty sure about that. Either that or mankind will be exterminated due to some religious war or a war over resources in the meantime. I hope for the former... and the EU is something like a prototype of something like that. I just think everybody who is in favor of Brexit is thinking just very short-term and very provincialistic. In the long run, only united solutions can prevail... the problems of EU should for sure be tackled - but the idea of the EU itself is without alternative in the long run in my opinion... just my 2 cents.

[Vini]

nicely written, stout, i agree.
the (political) problems of most western democracies are very similar, no matter if isolated or united. i think the chance of fixing them is higher when all people see themselves as part of the same thing, though.

[girlracerTracey]

since the election was obviously not rigged, it means that half of the brexit supporters are probably people who prefer believing in unproven speculation instead of facts.

Of course it is not unproven speculation to suggest that vote rigging and election fraud can and does take place throughout the world. That's an accepted fact. 

Just as it is factual to state that aerosol geoengineering (weather modification) projects exist and are ongoing and that contracts and patents are being set with the involvement of NASA and U.S. government agencies. So the phenomenon of chem-trails is real..  (pulling Stout's leg..) 

[Warlock]

A world collective government? 

Sorry to say , but keep dreaming Stout, that will never happen. Countries culture are too different each other. Can you imagine North Corea working toghether with the rest of the world?

[Vini]

Should've left your comment unedited, grT

The statistic was speficially about the referendum (not election, sorry for that) and it turned out that it was not rigged.

[girlracerTracey]

since the election was obviously not rigged, it means that half of the brexit supporters are probably people who prefer believing in unproven speculation instead of facts.

Main part of my post went missing. My fault.

What I was trying to say was that the level of general mistrust witnessed in the U.K. population over this referendum was quite unprecedented. Mistrust not only in the government itself but also in its agencies and intelligence services. Fear of the government fixing the result was widespread. Really quite unprecedented.  Hence I posted the link.

To illustrate the "mood" even Nigel Farage himself (leader of the anti-EU UKIP party) within minutes of the polls closing last night (before 1st result even declared) publicly accused the government of fixing the result in their favour by extending the deadline for voter registrations by 24 hours. He made this accusation on live t.v.  Again unprecedented for a senior politician to do this.

Also inadvertently the BBC caught on camera some apparent vote rigging in action albeit on a small scale during live coverage of an official count. A person was seen in the background of one of the live shots apparently changing the vote on a ballot paper. Within minutes the BBC switchboards were jammed by concerned viewers phoning up to report the crime..!

Quite a night! lol.

[Napalm Nick]

Rubbing out my pencil X 

[Reactive]

Protect those countries from any military aggression from another country and without NATO we would probably have been involved in another world war by now with Russia's recent antics.

, did you know — official russian army staying in Crimea since 1778 and NEVER after leaved it? State "Ukraine" firstly was organized in 1917 on the territory of one city (Kiev) and died after 4 monthes. What russians thinking about ukrainians at this moment — madness zoo with regular Darwin awards.
Open the map — is anyone really believe the russians need more territories? For what?!

Totally right, with little addition — final point of the Russia initiatives is to make the multipolar world, where all the countries are equal. No more superpowers.

[Stout Johnson]

Just as it is factual to state that aerosol geoengineering (weather modification) projects exist and are ongoing and that contracts and patents are being set with the involvement of NASA and U.S. government agencies. So the phenomenon of chem-trails is real..  (pulling Stout's leg..) 

now this is why arguing with someone like you is futile. you just write sth without any proof and act like it is undisputable - and then you feel superior in the argumentation although you did not prove anything... the theory on chemtrails is much much extensive than mere aerosol geoengineering (weather modification) - the latter exists and is not neglected by anybody whereas the extensive theory on chemtrails is just a myth

A world collective government? 

Sorry to say , but keep dreaming Stout, that will never happen. Countries culture are too different each other. Can you imagine North Corea working toghether with the rest of the world?

For an artist that you are, you seem to be narrow-minded buddy. Do you really think North Corea will be a dictatorship forever? Your question is similar to asking a person in 1914 or 1938 whether he/she could ever imagine France and Germany ever to be part of a collective european organisation like the EU. I don't say it will happen within the next hundred years, it might take several hundred years but in the end countries/governments will move closely together and differences will be marginalized.

I agree it won't come easy and it might only be due to catastrophies, crisis and wars that it will eventually happen (e.g. WW II and Cuban Missile Crisis were important factors in multinational peace treaties) but it will happen sooner or later.

"Countries" are not really different to each other - it is perceptions, religions, languages, political ideologies of people in charge that make a difference. Just look at your country Spain - just compare it 50 years ago with what is Spain now - it is a sharp contrast. Or just look at the world. 500 years ago the most important question was which religion would prevail, 100 years ago the most disputed question was whether socialism or capitalism would prevail. Although those questions still do exist to some degree, they are being marginalized over time. And I think this process will continue over time (although it might be a rocky road), people will sooner or later realize that we all are not that different... I am not naive, I am just analyzing history 

[girlracerTracey]

now this is why arguing with someone like you is futile. you just write sth without any proof and act like it is undisputable - and then you feel superior in the argumentation although you did not prove anything... the theory on chemtrails is much much extensive than mere aerosol geoengineering (weather modification) - the latter exists and is not neglected by anybody whereas the extensive theory on chemtrails is just a myth

This is why conversing (not arguing) with individuals such as yourself can at times feel somewhat futile. There's now overwhelming evidence that the chem-trail phenomenon is widespread and very real. There are emerging academic papers and published opinion from independent scientific experts in all relevant fields to support this fact. Moreover there is now formal admittance from governmental bodies that geo-engineering programmes are active, "live" and that the technology is moving forward.

Now your inference Stout, a number of posts back. was that chem-trails were the stuff of conspiracy theory (implication being I suppose that such a phenomenon didn't necessarily exist?). Your post and your words Stout not mine. I can't recall your exact wording. However, as I say, things have now moved on considerably from the position of mere conjecture or theory. The fact now is that a cocktail of heavy metals (including barium, strontium and aluminium) as part of an extended weather modification programme, is being released on a regular basis into our atmosphere. Fact not fiction.

In Australia quite an intriguing new development is also being discussed. The Office of the Gene Technology Regulator (OGTR) is looking at a licence application from PaxVax Australia (PaxVax) for the intentional release of a GMO vaccine consisting of live bacteria into the Australian environment. According to the regulator, it qualifies as a limited and controlled release under section 50A of the Gene Technology Act 2000. So an aerosol atmospheric release of something constituting a GMO vaccine is now actively being pursued. Now quite a lot of conjecture exists, unsurprisingly, as to how such a new application for aerosol spraying might be used and developed in the future.

My honest and well meant advice if you hold an interest in subjects that are not covered in the mainstream media is to seek reliable and accurate sources elsewhere. If all one does is listen to the MSM one's view of the world might end up being slightly blinkered. I know I've been there myself.. 

grT

[Stout Johnson]

Moreover there is now formal admittance from governmental bodies that geo-engineering programmes are active, "live" and that the technology is moving forward. [..]

Now your inference Stout, a number of posts back. was that chem-trails were the stuff of conspiracy theory (implication being I suppose that such a phenomenon didn't necessarily exist?).

It would be helpful if you would actually read what I am writing It would be helpful if you would not just take the possibility of adressing something I wrote as a possibility for self-manifestation but rather really look into what I am expressing...

the theory on chemtrails is much much extensive than mere aerosol geoengineering (weather modification) - the latter exists and is not neglected by anybody whereas the extensive theory on chemtrails is just a myth

In short: Only the aerosol geoengineering as part of the chem-trails theory does happen (again: I don't doubt that, never did), whereas the extensive theory on "chem-trails" is just a conspiracy theory. To be absolutely sure, we don't talk about different things here: "aerosol geoengineering" is the effort to influence weather phenomenons via chemical exposure. The theory on "chem-trails" is more extensive and also includes the belief that governments secretly spread chemicals to e.g. influence birth rates or do psychological manipulation. This (at least for western civilizations today) is totally nuts. I myself know people who believe in this stuff and they even see normal condensation trails as proof for chem-trails...

[girlracerTracey]

@Stout: Don't you roll your eyes at me young man..!!

lol. Only joking..

Having checked back on your posts to be fair to us both you didn't really amplify on what you were getting at, or alluding to, with regard to chem-trails at all. Your earlier post in turn followed on from another post in which you did seem to be dismissing "carte blanche" the conceivable legitimacy of any and all conspiracy theories. So anyway, no harm done.. 

I am aware of the possible theoretical links put forward by some between aerosol spraying and eugenics..but of course this constitutes nothing more than imaginative speculation at this time. So I take your point in that regard.

As an observation what I find interesting is that officialdom, it could be argued, has it's own conspiracy theories. Take for example the official story relating to 9/11..inconsistent and as dubious in circumstantial and scientific supportive evidence as this particular "official" conspiracy theory might seem..  Yet many people unquestioningly believe "official" conspiracy theories whilst at the same choose to dismiss all and every non-official conspiracy theory..irrespective of the breadth and depth of the supportive evidence. As I say just an observation. 

As an aside Stout how do you feel about the possible uniform imposition of TTIP upon the EU member states?

grT



 

[h106frp]

Well i am even more disillusioned with politicians this morning;

Dave throwing his dummy and calling the job we elected and pay him to do 'sh%t' and Osbourne and his disappearing act. Note to both - you are paid civil servants, grow up and deal with it.

The EU leaders are having an emergency meeting to decide how best to punish the UK for exercising a democratic vote and to deter its own citizens for asking for any type of reform; looks like 'project fear' is regrettably going to be one of our last exports to the rest of europe then. Notte to them - the rules for exit are the ones you approved - grow up and deal with it.

Its sad but it looks like the ruling elite of europe is finally pinning its true colors to the mast.

[Vini]

chem-trails

ok, i'm out.

[HornetMaX]

The EU leaders are having an emergency meeting to decide how best to punish the UK for exercising a democratic vote and to deter its own citizens for asking for any type of reform; looks like 'project fear' is regrettably going to be one of our last exports to the rest of europe then. Notte to them - the rules for exit are the ones you approved - grow up and deal with it.

As far as I know they are not going to discuss or alter the exit rules, that's just not possible. They just have to roughly settle the guidelines for the comm on the plan (what and when) and the conditions of the future deal with the UK.

Of course, you can't expect them to cut you a deal that is equal or better then the one you currently have: said otherwise, the deal will be worse.
I find this totally normal and not retaliation at all. Joining the EU comes with some burden and some advantages: you leave, you lose both.
As they say in France "On peut pas avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre"

Probably the biggest lie (set aside the 350m GBP/week stuff) that the leave camp has told everybody: don't worry, when we leave we'll negotiate a deal, same as before hands down, maybe even better.  Of course, this won't happen. There will be a deal for sure, but the conditions will be worse, because:

• the EU is a club. Like any club, paying members must have some sort of advantage.
• that's what you get when a 60m population state negotiates with a 400m population "state".

There's no punishment, it's just business and common sense. And the fact that this would be the course had been announced multiple times before the ref day: multiple EU leaders made it clear, out is out. No more space for "let's negotiate something special for me because you know, I'm the UK".

chem-trails

ok, i'm out.

Stay, just skip "some" messages