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Implement timer for resetting bike after crash

Started by iVolution, January 19, 2014, 08:41:19 PM

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iVolution

As I recall something similar being suggested on the old forum, I wanted just to suggest a solution once more...

To prevent the bike from going on forever after a crash without someone actually on it, i want to suggest putting a timer in the game that makes it possible to reset the bike although it did not come to a complete stop. If the game "knows" when the biker has fallen off (which I expect it does) then it should allow a bike reset after <insert variable here> seconds. After let's say 10 seconds the bike usually has come to a stop and if it did not, it would not be unreasonable to allow for a reset imho.

I think this might be an easier (but less realistic) fix for Piboso then changing something in the physics to prevent this from happening. I know the gyroscoping effects sometimes keeps the bikes standing up in real life as well, but especially on tracks such as UlsterGP with the "curved sides" along most of the track it just happens a bit too often.

Arvoss

Quote from: iVolution on January 19, 2014, 08:41:19 PM
As I recall something similar being suggested on the old forum, I wanted just to suggest a solution once more...

To prevent the bike from going on forever after a crash without someone actually on it, i want to suggest putting a timer in the game that makes it possible to reset the bike although it did not come to a complete stop. If the game "knows" when the biker has fallen off (which I expect it does) then it should allow a bike reset after <insert variable here> seconds. After let's say 10 seconds the bike usually has come to a stop and if it did not, it would not be unreasonable to allow for a reset imho.

I think this might be an easier (but less realistic) fix for Piboso then changing something in the physics to prevent this from happening. I know the gyroscoping effects sometimes keeps the bikes standing up in real life as well, but especially on tracks such as UlsterGP with the "curved sides" along most of the track it just happens a bit too often.

I really hope PiBoSo adds a 'force reset'. It's not only useful for the rider but also for the others (when your bike falls on the racing line or in a chicane).

iVolution

Quote from: Arvoss on January 19, 2014, 10:16:40 PM
I really hope PiBoSo adds a 'force reset'. It's not only useful for the rider but also for the others (when your bike falls on the racing line or in a chicane).
But that is part of the deal i think. People just have to steer around it just as IRL. How are you going to prevent people from using that all the time? It is hard for the game to decide whether the bike is obstructing the normal racing line or not i think. Aside from that, what is worse.. a bike lying on the track or someone spawning in front of you?

Arvoss

Quote from: iVolution on January 19, 2014, 10:33:47 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on January 19, 2014, 10:16:40 PM
I really hope PiBoSo adds a 'force reset'. It's not only useful for the rider but also for the others (when your bike falls on the racing line or in a chicane).
But that is part of the deal i think. People just have to steer around it just as IRL. How are you going to prevent people from using that all the time? It is hard for the game to decide whether the bike is obstructing the normal racing line or not i think. Aside from that, what is worse.. a bike lying on the track or someone spawning in front of you?

Ghost spawn is a solution. A force reset is needed for scooter races for example. Imagine a 24 player race on a small track. It will be almost impossible to reset now...

HornetMaX

We are discussing two separate issues here:

  • Bike going on and on all alone: this must be addressed, but not with a button to prevent it.
  • General respawn mechanism
In GPB today you respawn ON the track, at the point where the rider fell off (in beta3 it was at the point where the bike stopped, which was worse).
In order to avoid troubles to the other riders, GPB waits until nobody is near the respawn point before letting you respawn. The problem is that on some short tracks/many riders, you wait forever.

I'd reason like this: how does it works for, let's say, WRS/KRP ?

My solution would be: respawn OFF the track, i.e. same point of the track where the rider fell off, but not on the track, beside it, on asphalt, grass or even sand (you'll have to "walk" the bike from sand ...). Then it's up to the rider to go back on track avoiding troubles. After all, it's already like this in WRS/KRP: when you go off the track, then you go back on track by yourself.

MaX.

iVolution

January 19, 2014, 11:43:24 PM #5 Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 12:12:10 AM by HornetMaX
EDIT: I messed up your post iVo, sorry. MaX.

Yes issue #2 was not something i proposed to discuss. Nothing wrong with that imo.

It is not entirely fair to compare WRS/KRP with GPbikes regarding to the respawning mechanism... Aside from the bike having two wheel which makes it a lot harder to get of the grass from a standstill, it just sometimes happens that there is a curbstone or some other irregularity in the surface that just keeps you falling over when next to the track. Spawning next to the track is therefore not really an option for bikes i think.

HornetMaX

Quote
Yes issue #2 was not something i proposed to discuss. Nothing wrong with that imo.
There's plenty of wrong: when you are on a short track with many riders, you may not be able to respawn at all.

In less extreme situations, you may fall and respawn in 5 seconds (cause nobody is coming behind you) or in 50 seconds (cause a train of "not-sufficiently-enough-spaced" riders are coming behind you). For an online race, this is kinda bad: how much you'll lose will depend on your luck. We experienced this many times in the french championship (some short tracks there).

Quote
It is not entirely fair to compare WRS/KRP with GPbikes regarding to the respawning mechanism... Aside from the bike having two wheel which makes it a lot harder to get of the grass from a standstill, it just sometimes happens that there is a curbstone or some other irregularity in the surface that just keeps you falling over when next to the track. Spawning next to the track is therefore not really an option for bikes i think.
I really don't see why though. It is closer to reality than respawning always on track. If there's a track bug that prevents you from going back on track .. well, that's a track bug. Also, you could walk the bike to another point and go back on track.

Getting off the grass is hard ? Yes. Like in reality. Don't open that throttle too much. Not even once you're on the track, as your tires will be dirty. Like in reality.

MaX.

iVolution

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 20, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
In less extreme situations, you may fall and respawn in 5 seconds (cause nobody is coming behind you) or in 50 seconds (cause a train of "not-sufficiently-enough-spaced" riders are coming behind you). For an online race, this is kinda bad: how much you'll lose will depend on your luck.
I haven't really raced the zip's on the kart-tracks seriously so haven't experienced it all too much. On "normal" tracks i can imagine it happening but i think its less of a problem there.

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 20, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
I really don't see why though. It is closer to reality than respawning always on track. If there's a track bug that prevents you from going back on track .. well, that's a track bug. Also, you could walk the bike to another point and go back on track.

Getting off the grass is hard ? Yes. Like in reality. Don't open that throttle too much. Not even once you're on the track, as your tires will be dirty. Like in reality.
Yes but if we want to go that direction we should go all the way, I remember SBK2000/2001 had the "walking to your bike" feature and that was a lot less fair than waiting for others to pass. If you went down on a straight or in particular corners, it could mean that you were losing 30 sec instead of 5 when landing near your bike. That was a bit though as well because falling  off literaly meant finishing with the last 1 or 2.

HornetMaX

Quote from: iVolution on January 20, 2014, 12:30:29 AM
Yes but if we want to go that direction we should go all the way, I remember SBK2000/2001 had the "walking to your bike" feature and that was a lot less fair than waiting for others to pass. If you went down on a straight or in particular corners, it could mean that you were losing 30 sec instead of 5 when landing near your bike.
Well, at least it had the plus of being realistic (as much as respawning after an highside could be). I'm sure some hardcore guys here would prefer that.

Of course all this should apply for races/online only: when testing we don't really care.

So ball to the others: how would you like to change the current respawn logic (if at all) ?

MaX.

Hawk

Interesting discussion.

If we're talking reality here, most bikes that fall are in no condition to continue the race anyway, so lets be real and solve the problem by the incident ending your race, period. Maybe then riders wouldn't race like kamakazi riders knowing that if they fall off then that's the end of their race. :P
As for practice, qualy, warm up, or sighting lap, if you fall off then you go straight back to your garage, were you can then decide to go back to track as usual.

I know it will at times be frustrating with the some of the crap track surfaces that are around at the moment, but they are and will be slowly fixed.

Stout Johnson

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 20, 2014, 12:44:09 AM
If we're talking reality here, most bikes that fall are in no condition to continue the race anyway, so lets be real and solve the problem by the incident ending your race, period. Maybe then riders wouldn't race like kamakazi riders knowing that if they fall off then that's the end of their race. :P
As for practice, qualy, warm up, or sighting lap, if you fall off then you go straight back to your garage, were you can then decide to go back to track as usual.

I know it will at times be frustrating with the some of the crap track surfaces that are around at the moment, but they are and will be slowly fixed.
+1000! thank you Hawk, glad to have others here promoting that approach, too  :) I would make one small adjustment though. I would propose that ...

*if you fall and hit the ground/barrier with an impact above a (to be defined) "impact threshold", then you go straight back to the pits (in a race --> DNF (did not finish))

*if you hit relatively slightly (with an impact that would not necessarily mean you could not continue) then you can continue by re-spawning, but from off the track like Max proposed

I would go even as far as saying that it would make all of us better riders if we knew that falling meant to be starting out of the pits again... we would ride much more consciously.
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

Arvoss

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 20, 2014, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 20, 2014, 12:44:09 AM
If we're talking reality here, most bikes that fall are in no condition to continue the race anyway, so lets be real and solve the problem by the incident ending your race, period. Maybe then riders wouldn't race like kamakazi riders knowing that if they fall off then that's the end of their race. :P
As for practice, qualy, warm up, or sighting lap, if you fall off then you go straight back to your garage, were you can then decide to go back to track as usual.

I know it will at times be frustrating with the some of the crap track surfaces that are around at the moment, but they are and will be slowly fixed.
+1000! thank you Hawk, glad to have others here promoting that approach, too  :) I would make one small adjustment though. I would propose that ...

*if you fall and hit the ground/barrier with an impact above a (to be defined) "impact threshold", then you go straight back to the pits (in a race --> DNF (did not finish))

*if you hit relatively slightly (with an impact that would not necessarily mean you could not continue) then you can continue by re-spawning, but from off the track like Max proposed

I would go even as far as saying that it would make all of us better riders if we knew that falling meant to be starting out of the pits again... we would ride much more consciously.

The problem is, you fall too easy on GP Bikes. You can't have a very close battle without falling. In MOTOGP riders are touching each other and they don't fall. PiBoSo should add a bit more glue on the seat  ::)

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 20, 2014, 02:19:26 PM
I would make one small adjustment though. I would propose that ...

*if you fall and hit the ground/barrier with an impact above a (to be defined) "impact threshold", then you go straight back to the pits (in a race --> DNF (did not finish))

*if you hit relatively slightly (with an impact that would not necessarily mean you could not continue) then you can continue by re-spawning, but from off the track like Max proposed

I kinda like this. Of course it could be made optional (under hardcore options maybe).

Quote from: Arvoss on January 20, 2014, 02:23:23 PM
The problem is, you fall too easy on GP Bikes. You can't have a very close battle without falling. In MOTOGP riders are touching each other and they don't fall. PiBoSo should add a bit more glue on the seat  ::)

That's a separate issue. If the rider was not falling that much, would it be OK to do something along the lines of what Stout has proposed ?

MaX.

iVolution

January 20, 2014, 03:27:10 PM #13 Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 03:29:23 PM by iVolution
Quote from: Arvoss on January 20, 2014, 02:23:23 PM
The problem is, you fall too easy on GP Bikes. You can't have a very close battle without falling. In MOTOGP riders are touching each other and they don't fall. PiBoSo should add a bit more glue on the seat  ::)
Maybe for you that is a problem, for me it is what makes GPbikes great. If I look at footage from motogp13 i see people just ramming it up the inside and surviving to live another day  :-\ (maybe something for 1st corners warlock? :P). I have had multiple multilap battles with jamoz and others where you just give each other some breathing room and we manage just fine. There is nothing wrong with how fast you go down....

The only exception to this is when in some cases the bikes go side by side at the same speed (in a nearly straight line) and bump against each other the rider falls off and the bike doesn't even change direction.

edit: sry for going off topic with this and won't spend anymore words on it here  ;)

Arvoss

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 20, 2014, 03:17:50 PM

That's a separate issue. If the rider was not falling that much, would it be OK to do something along the lines of what Stout has proposed ?

MaX.

Yes, that would be quite realistic. If you have the possibility to choose the difficulty level (Reset on/off) that would be a great feature.
Crash = PIT ;)