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December 14, 2019, 11:19:02 pm

News:

GP Bikes beta16b available! :)


So, what's next?

Started by DidietXFuera, June 21, 2019, 08:05:04 am

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KG_03

Yes I agree switching engines would cost too much time, ale I would say that gp bikes graphics are good. With post processing it might get that eyecandy some need.

All I need now is a motorbike for each class with dedicated tyres so modders could use the tyres as a reference for modding. And of course more tracks made by PiBoSo what will be a warranty for equal content not a mix of simulation/arcade.

Blackheart

Im in a big motorycle community on xbox, and some guys ask me about GP Bikes, 'unfortunately' the graphics is important. And GP Bikes in years is not changes in this area.

Aernouts2

Hello All,

Not posting much on here... for me personal the main reason i have never bought it (played only a few demo's in the early days).
Is that there is no AI !... without AI's and as i read on forum with a lot of online connecting problems, there is not much left.

And although i have a lot of respect for Piboso for building everything up from the ground (on his own ??) it probably takes to long to get it finished.

Dont get me wrong it is not somthing I worry about, but for this game to become a succes.... i dunno :(

Hawk

June 24, 2019, 03:26:10 pm #33 Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 03:28:31 pm by Hawk
Quote from: poumpouny on June 24, 2019, 08:01:35 amI'm very disappointed with how the humanity is thinking these days :

1 : Big company ( like Milestone) make AAA games, with a "compromise physic" to attract more people to be able to make profit and pay their hundreds of employee, licences fee. and is forced to make almost 1 new game each years.

Humanity : "Fuck off Milestone, don't mess me with you're eye candy UE4 thing, you'physics sucks, Go hire a really physic developer."

2 : 1 Guy develop an indie motorcycle simulator, with kicking ass physics (still not finished since 10 years), VR support, a ton of mod (almost all existing track), unbeatable input configurability, track ir support,  , and sell it 29 Bucks + a free copy of WRS (a car simulator with also kicking ass physics, especially on dirt) ........

Humanity : "Fuck off Piboso, you're game looks like a 1990's atari title, you're physic is not an excuse to not have eye candy, why don't you switch to UE4 ? it's very easy no ?"


- Guys, you don't even imagine what a nightmare UE4 is and how much work represent switching engine (i'm working in that area so i'know what i'm talking about) ! IF you doubt ask Kunos's guy ! Also you're also forgetting how difficult is to mod an UE4 based game ............




All people are saying is what the vast majority of people want, and first rule of business(if you want to make any real money) is you give the people what they want and not what one wants..... No inhumanity about that at all in my book.... This is not a hobby, it's a business.  :)
I think we'd all agree that if we could keep the Piboso physics, replay system and modding functionality, and yet also have the UE4 visuals and network stability, all working nice and stable, then we'd all be very happy bunnies. ;D

There are still many elements of GPB that are far superior than what Milestone have ever achieved with the MotoGP series, that is without any doubt whatsoever.... Only yesterday we were playing MotoGP 19 and talking about if only they could add this and that from Piboso's GPBikes, or vice versa, it would be great!

So even though it may seem that some of us are bashing Piboso, we are not just complaining for no reasons, and as a developer, I would rather hear all the complaints rather than the compliments cause the complaints are the things that you can work on to improve your work, compliments are nice to hear and no-doubt appreciated but they are ten-a-penny and don't really mean that much in the big scheme of things.
The thing is that it's the frustrating issues that get talked about 99.9% of the time in any fan-base, and it could be easy for a single indie dev like Piboso to think that his work is crap, when in actual fact it's very very good in many ways(frustrating in other ways)... But if nothing was said at all then how could Piboso know what the issues are that he may not be aware of? Complaint's wishes and wants are just something that all developers will be asked and plagued about... It's just "par for the course" as they say.

As for switching GPB to UE4.... A lot would depend on the design of Piboso's code.... If it's well designed then it would make the transition a lot easier with less work involved(I presume Piboso codes in C++). But only Piboso could know how complicated it would be for him personally to achieve this; so there's no point in saying how hard it is when, to be honest, without studying Piboso's GPBikes source code you really haven't a clue just what complications would be involved in achieving that aim, only Piboso would know that.

About the modding...... No disrespect, poumpouny, but as you know what you are talking about, then please do tell us just how difficult is it to MOD a UE4 moddable game and why you think it is such a difficult thing to achieve as part of a UE4 SDK game modding procedure? :)


Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: Hawk on June 24, 2019, 03:26:10 pm
Quote from: poumpouny on June 24, 2019, 08:01:35 amI'm very disappointed with how the humanity is thinking these days :

1 : Big company ( like Milestone) make AAA games, with a "compromise physic" to attract more people to be able to make profit and pay their hundreds of employee, licences fee. and is forced to make almost 1 new game each years.

Humanity : "Fuck off Milestone, don't mess me with you're eye candy UE4 thing, you'physics sucks, Go hire a really physic developer."

2 : 1 Guy develop an indie motorcycle simulator, with kicking ass physics (still not finished since 10 years), VR support, a ton of mod (almost all existing track), unbeatable input configurability, track ir support,  , and sell it 29 Bucks + a free copy of WRS (a car simulator with also kicking ass physics, especially on dirt) ........

Humanity : "Fuck off Piboso, you're game looks like a 1990's atari title, you're physic is not an excuse to not have eye candy, why don't you switch to UE4 ? it's very easy no ?"


- Guys, you don't even imagine what a nightmare UE4 is and how much work represent switching engine (i'm working in that area so i'know what i'm talking about) ! IF you doubt ask Kunos's guy ! Also you're also forgetting how difficult is to mod an UE4 based game ............




All people are saying is what the vast majority of people want, and first rule of business(if you want to make any real money) is you give the people what they want and not what one wants..... No inhumanity about that at all in my book.... This is not a hobby, it's a business.  :)
I think we'd all agree that if we could keep the Piboso physics, replay system and modding functionality, and yet also have the UE4 visuals and network stability, all working nice and stable, then we'd all be very happy bunnies. ;D

There are still many elements of GPB that are far superior than what Milestone have ever achieved with the MotoGP series, that is without any doubt whatsoever.... Only yesterday we were playing MotoGP 19 and talking about if only they could add this and that from Piboso's GPBikes, or vice versa, it would be great!

So even though it may seem that some of us are bashing Piboso, we are not just complaining for no reasons, and as a developer, I would rather hear all the complaints rather than the compliments cause the complaints are the things that you can work on to improve your work, compliments are nice to hear and no-doubt appreciated but they are ten-a-penny and don't really mean that much in the big scheme of things.
The thing is that it's the frustrating issues that get talked about 99.9% of the time in any fan-base, and it could be easy for a single indie dev like Piboso to think that his work is crap, when in actual fact it's very very good in many ways(frustrating in other ways)... But if nothing was said at all then how could Piboso know what the issues are that he may not be aware of? Complaint's wishes and wants are just something that all developers will be asked and plagued about... It's just "par for the course" as they say.

As for switching GPB to UE4.... A lot would depend on the design of Piboso's code.... If it's well designed then it would make the transition a lot easier with less work involved(I presume Piboso codes in C++). But only Piboso could know how complicated it would be for him personally to achieve this; so there's no point in saying how hard it is when, to be honest, without studying Piboso's GPBikes source code you really haven't a clue just what complications would be involved in achieving that aim, only Piboso would know that.

About the modding...... No disrespect, poumpouny, but as you know what you are talking about, then please do tell us just how difficult is it to MOD a UE4 moddable game and why you think it is such a difficult thing to achieve as part of a UE4 SDK game modding procedure? :)




+1 for all this

And as for ue4 modding, it can't be that hard to do, (in comparison) as both MotoGP 19, and, most notably mod wise, Assetto Corsa use this engine.

There are programmes to convert models directly as well, so I can't see a reason this couldn't be done in GPB should the engine change happen.

matty0l215

Models aren't an issue. They are just models. The main problem is weather the base code would be at all compatible with the unreal engine.

Would it be worth it? Maybe. Only Piboso would know that.

I will be honest considering how far this engine has come, assuming the graphics side can be updated, I wouldn't just abandon it. As Walken said, Piboso has 100% control over its direction and what "can" be done with it.

More smaller updates would be beneficial than waiting 6 months to a year for each game. Also patching would be useful as opposed to full updates.

doubledragoncc

Fxxx yes it will be worth it.........as great as GPB is........... PEOPLE, CUSTOMERS today demand high end graphics...........do you understand the largest consumer of bike games is under 20 and wants bling for there money not almost.

I ACTUALLY NEED THE UE4 kind of level because as good as the physics are in GPB my eyes constantly tell me its just a sim. I want The FEEL of it AND the vision of it, just the physics will never be enough. If Piboso does not make that happen then GPB will never give a true and real feeling to the rider.

Graphic quality means closer to real world vision so to say you can play GPB with unrealistic grahics and your happy, you make it no reason to progress.

I think this is the most frustrating forum there is, this is the best dang motocycle sim in the world and I gotta say Mr P Has done an incredible job. BUT the wants of different people are in different directions.

BUT what if WE all the loyel members said, "We want UE4" and then said "We will buy another lisence to help development" if you all feel like I do you WANT this to happen, so in many ways we need to find a way to persuade Mr P to at least look into and then tell us what it would take in time and money to put GPB on UE4................Then WE can make a Battleplan.............

Just my 2 magic beans of thought

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Hawk

June 24, 2019, 07:10:16 pm #37 Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 07:32:29 pm by Hawk
I would definitely pay another £29.99 for a Piboso GPBikes UE4 version that also takes advantage of the UE4 visual capabilities, so long as I could use FBX files to transfer my MOD models(Bike, track, rider, environment) + animations(bike, track, rider, environment) into UE4, and from UE4 be able to add/adjust textures/maps as well as add all the bikes physics data for bikeMODS and then export the mod from UE4 into a game file for GPBikes(preferably all MOD files would have to be encrypted - UE4 can do this).

But yeah, I would be willing to pay £29.99 to Piboso again for that. ;)

PS: Also make it so that you cannot import any encrypted GPBike game files back into UE4.

Good points DD about good visuals do actually enhance the immersion and feel of a simulator, your right, it's not just about having the best physics in the business. +1 mate! ;)

Myst1cPrun3

June 24, 2019, 07:21:55 pm #38 Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 07:23:40 pm by Myst1cPrun3
Quote from: matty0l215 on June 24, 2019, 06:09:22 pmMore smaller updates would be beneficial than waiting 6 months to a year for each game. Also patching would be useful as opposed to full updates.





I guess the patching would be better when it goes live on steam, as it means it would auto update, rather than keep having to re-download the launcher.




Quote from: doubledragoncc on June 24, 2019, 06:49:30 pmF**k yes it will be worth it.........as great as GPB is........... PEOPLE, CUSTOMERS today demand high end graphics...........do you understand the largest consumer of bike games is under 20 and wants bling for there money not almost.

I ACTUALLY NEED THE UE4 kind of level because as good as the physics are in GPB my eyes constantly tell me its just a sim. I want The FEEL of it AND the vision of it, just the physics will never be enough. If Piboso does not make that happen then GPB will never give a true and real feeling to the rider.

Graphic quality means closer to real world vision so to say you can play GPB with unrealistic graphics and your happy, you make it no reason to progress.

I think this is the most frustrating forum there is, this is the best dang motorcycle sim in the world and I gotta say Mr P Has done an incredible job. BUT the wants of different people are in different directions.

BUT what if WE all the loyal members said, "We want UE4" and then said "We will buy another licence to help development" if you all feel like I do you WANT this to happen, so in many ways we need to find a way to persuade Mr P to at least look into and then tell us what it would take in time and money to put GPB on UE4................Then WE can make a Battleplan.............

Just my 2 magic beans of thought

DD



As for Ue4 Graphics, people can be fickle, and judge a game/sim based on what they can see, and rarely pay attention to the button layouts of their controller never mind physics.

Only time they appreciate it is when these things are shockingly bad.

I do also agree that playing with the current graphics is a constant reminder that I am in a sim, as there are constant flickers and stuff like that.
It becomes especially noticeable when in VR, as some of the dashes are a little blurry, and sometimes the colors run over each other.

(Can be seen in my spa 500 2T Video, although I'm not sure how much is GPB vs Oculus, as its only started since the last 2 oculus home updates, maybe GPB needs a hotfix to account for it IDK)

Graphics are one of the reasons I'm looking forward to BSE, while again, in a sim, physics are usually taken over graphics, (In old game development this was because there wasn't sufficient hardware to have the calculations for physics and the graphical rendering at the same time, but its better now LOL) however that's not to say graphics are unimportant.

As for money, I appreciate the main sim is a little sparse content wise, but I feel if the New/Old Assen track gets released as well as possibly a refresh on the old versions of Laguna Seca and Lime Rock Park that used to be present, and the older Murusama bikes get a bit of a refresh, newer physics/sounds etc, then that would be enough for a base game, as much like rFactor, GPB shines on the Mods, and not the base content.

The reason I drag that into money, as if the quality is there, (Which judging off Pibs previous it is), I would gladly pay for any fresh content as paid DLC, licensed or no.

I understand Paid DLC is a bit of a 'Taboo' topic in the gaming world, but I would much prefer to boost Pibs enthusiasm with this approach rather than buying more copies of GPB, as I have no reason for more GPB copies at this point, but this way I could actually use the DLC, and get some bang for my buck so to speak.

Just so long as there aren't loot crates XD

Incidentally I would buy a new license for a re-release, or a 'GP Bikes 2' which is on UE4

doubledragoncc

I am not fickle.........I am old and my eyes give me a problem with the graphics if they are of bad quality or the colouration is in certain ways. I actuslly need quality graphics to be able to see where the god dang tamac is or Im done......that is NO joke

I have a serious problem with low quality, low pixel graghics, it strains my eyes, and no glasses dont help. I had a serious facial injury thats left my eyes very sensiitive. After 10-15 mins in GPB my eyes get slightly blury by the end of an online race they burn, but was fun, yet I can ride in Ride3 or MotoGP19 and even MXGP3 for an hour or more and it wont get half as bad............Think about what I just said.............UE4 is not only better visually, it is acually physcally better, I am not the only person with eye problems or glasses and we should be taken into account when it comes to it.

That said and the cats out the bag, NO matter what I will stick with GPB. I am kinda sworn to and honor Piboso, he/she has given me a goal and path to follow and it all started with GPBike by Piboso

I have a few things in a closet that maybe with luck I can reveal to all and brighten the day

I think only the Brits or do I have to say English too here will understand the last sentence.........with luck it will be good

Stay positive chaps

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Myst1cPrun3

Quote from: doubledragoncc on June 24, 2019, 07:51:33 pmI am not fickle.........I am old and my eyes give me a problem with the graphics if they are of bad quality or the colouration is in certain ways. I actuslly need quality graphics to be able to see where the god dang tamac is or Im done......that is NO joke

I have a serious problem with low quality, low pixel graghics, it strains my eyes, and no glasses dont help. I had a serious facial injury thats left my eyes very sensiitive. After 10-15 mins in GPB my eyes get slightly blury by the end of an online race they burn, but was fun, yet I can ride in Ride3 or MotoGP19 and even MXGP3 for an hour or more and it wont get half as bad............Think about what I just said.............UE4 is not only better visually, it is acually physcally better, I am not the only person with eye problems or glasses and we should be taken into account when it comes to it.

That said and the cats out the bag, NO matter what I will stick with GPB. I am kinda sworn to and honor Piboso, he/she has given me a goal and path to follow and it all started with GPBike by Piboso

I have a few things in a closet that maybe with luck I can reveal to all and brighten the day

I think only the Brits or do I have to say English too here will understand the last sentence.........with luck it will be good

Stay positive chaps

DD

Not meaning you DD, 'fickle' meaning people who judge a game solely off graphics, without even looking at the physics, I have a few friends like that.

In other words, those who disregard physics completely for graphics.

Chances are, anyone who plays GPB is interested in the physics side of things as well, however I fully appreciate the fact that graphics, (while potentially not as important as those fickle judges believe) should be good, up to standard and smooth, but NOT the selling point.

It was. mainly aimed at attracting the new market not existing users.

But yeah, either way, the sheer customisable nature of GPB will ensure a steady stream of new modded content to keep people (myself included) coming back to this title.

At the end of the day I just wanna Race, and ATM in GPB that isn't really happening for one reason or another.
Hence my addiction to MotoGP 19, as the AI, while not perfect in any stretch, are more than capable of decent racing, whenever I want.


HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk on June 24, 2019, 03:26:10 pmAs for switching GPB to UE4.... A lot would depend on the design of Piboso's code.... If it's well designed then it would make the transition a lot easier with less work involved(I presume Piboso codes in C++). But only Piboso could know how complicated it would be for him personally to achieve this; so there's no point in saying how hard it is when, to be honest, without studying Piboso's GPBikes source code you really haven't a clue just what complications would be involved in achieving that aim, only Piboso would know that.
I think he's already answered this a while ago: switching to a different game engine would be a massive project.
I also think he's already said he's using C, not C++.

poumpouny

@HAwk :

when you write you own engine (like gpb or the original AC1) the base game itself is made of a folder configuration that allows you to make you bike/track via bike ed, export it and then place it in a given folder (bike/track folder) then the game see it easily. IF you open your Assetto Corsa Competizione (wich is made with UE4) steam folder (. all it's content is grouped under an archive (.pak) files wich is a 7Gig single file that you cannot extract with winrar or 7zip. I Don't know if Kunos protect it intentionally (surely) or if you need to recompile the game each time you ad a content via UE4, wich mean you need the source code ......

Also you don't understant what i mean, I will be the first person who will buy beer to the whole forum if one day we get the GPbikes physics + Moto gp 19 graphic and neural AI + GP1 netcode. The thing is that the main thing of gpbikes (the physics) is still not finished, the downhill physic thing, damage model etc ..... So please give time to Piboso to first fix and finish that and then we can retalk about UE4 or not ....and in my opinion, the GPbike graphic engine is not that bad, i think it "just" need to handle PBR material/shader. Look how beautiful and how light is the original assetto corsa with Sol and the custom shader patch ..... even ACC which is 1year old is not that far graphically......

Myst1cPrun3

Kunos provide the fide for assetto corsa, as they encourage mods for that title.

ACC is encrypted as that's not moddable, dye to the fact its a licensed series fake and not a general simulation.

As for graphics, I'm not sure what you're looking at  poumpouny, and I don't mean to be harsh, but GPB is closer to rf1 and RBR graphically, (to be expected considering the base GPB game was developed at that time frame I should imagine) and nowhere even close to any assetto corsa, default, modded, or new, bit in fidelity, and lighting.


This becomes extremely evident when running vr, and with supersampling etc

XTRMLN

June 25, 2019, 02:26:52 pm #44 Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 02:32:08 pm by XTRMLN
Interesting read...For me. Graphics the least important. I only play in first person VR so the track visuals is all I really care about and that stuffs whizzing by pretty quick anyways. It's all about if "feel" is achieved while riding in game. For the most part GPB does that for me. Is it perfect? Nope. Will I stay around to see how it pans out?  Yes. Unless the garage bug doesn't get fixed. When it rears it's ugly head it about makes me want to break things. 
  That being said, I'm not against a better looking game either. I would definitely be in the camp of willing to pay more to get more.