GPB Direct Steer with Torque BUG

[Hawk]

Please Piboso can you fix the DST steering bug:

When in the pits and you put the bike into 1st gear, the steering turns full to the left and you cannot bring it back into centre. This makes it almost impossible to get going right now. 

Please fix for beta 8 as I really want to give DST riding a good go. Thank you. 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

Wasn't this solved in beta7 ?I think I recall Klax saying that it was bad in beta6 but OK in beta7.

[Hawk]

Wasn't this solved in beta7 ?I think I recall Klax saying that it was bad in beta6 but OK in beta7.

Well I put DST on and when I spawned in the pits and put the bike into 1st gear the handlebars turn full to the left and you cannot centre them to get moving. Give it a try Max and you'll see what I mean. Just for ref: I did calibrate my Xbox 360 controller before giving it a try. 

I can't remember Klax saying that for beta 7(In fact I can't remember hearing from Klax in ages now), but I'm sure he did post something about that for beta 6 fixed from beta 5 but then it appeared again in the later betas. I'm sure that's what happened, because when me and Klax were practicing in Beta 6c it was a problem and the reason I dropped riding with DST.
I honestly would've thought Piboso would've fixed it by now but unfortunately not it seems. But as I say Max, give it a try and you'll see what I mean. 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

Could be. Try DSA instead, you won't have that problem.

[Hawk]

Could be. Try DSA instead, you won't have that problem.

I'll give DSA a test. But I'd rather ride DST(Reasons here in Klax's DST Thread :  http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1125.msg13262 ).

Did you give DST a test Max to see what I'm talking about here? Maybe you could confirm? 

Hawk.

[Hawk]

I can confirm that this bug is not present when using DSA.

So this bug is only present when using DST.

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

So this bug is only present when using DST.

Technically it's not a bug. DST means that you decide the torque to apply with your stick (not the position, so stick in the middle doesn't mean handlebars in the middle, that's DSA).

Let's imagine there's no friction between the tyre and the track: bike standing, bars fully left, you should apply a little torque right for a short time to get the bars moving right, then put the stick to middle (zero torque). At this point the bars will be rotating with constant angular speed to the right. When the bars are almost centred you'll have to apply a tiny torque left for a short time , to "brake" the bars and stop them in the middle.

Using DSA, the virtual rider does that for you: you tell him to keep the bars in the middle he does what's needed to do that.

To be honest, the way the bars swing left/right with DST when the bike is stopped is suspect. It's as if there's no tyre/track friction when the bike is stopped and hence even a tiny torque sends the bars fully left/right with little chances of being able to stop them in the middle and hold them there. One thing you can try is to lower the value of "directsteer_maxtorque" and raise "directsteer_maxtorque2". But if there's no friction when the bike is not moving, then that won't help.

[HornetMaX]

Side note: latest posts from Klax75 on the subject:

http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1429.0
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1514.msg21222

So I guess the problem was (and is) still there and I've been daydreaming

[HornetMaX]

Just tried DST again: weird, before shifting to 1st gear, the stick controls the steering angle. As soon as you shift into 1st, the steering goes to full right and you're doomed.

[Hawk]

Just tried DST again: weird, before shifting to 1st gear, the stick controls the steering angle. As soon as you shift into 1st, the steering goes to full right and you're doomed.

You got it! That's the DST bug(if it is a bug?) I'm talking about. 

In the meantime I've been doing some practice(ITA GP125) with DSA and all seems to work fine.  V/Hard to re-wire the control movements for my old brain though. Lol   

Here is the DSA settings I find are easiest to control DSA with:

Code Select Expand

[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=16


Until I put the above settings in, I found I was overcompensating for the lean angle movements. I find these settings a lot easier to hold the lean angle through a corner too.

Thanks Max. 

Hawk.
PS: I also think using manual rider movement is essential when using DSA or presumably with DST too. Forward and back rider movements make big differences to corner handling on corner entries and exits(back for entry and forward for exit I found best). Also using the left right rider movements to smoothly enter corners as those movements actually gently lean the bike into corners without any handlebar inputs.

[HornetMaX]

Just tried DST again: weird, before shifting to 1st gear, the stick controls the steering angle. As soon as you shift into 1st, the steering goes to full right and you're doomed.

You got it! That's the DST bug(if it is a bug?) I'm talking about. 

What happens in neutral (stick controls the steering angle, just like DSA) may make sense, e.g. when you need to walk the bike.
What happens after is weird indeed: in the past it was different, moving the stick left/right (even only slightly) was sending the steering full left/right with no chance to put it in the middle.
Now it seems that once you get into 1st, it goes fully right and it stays there no matter what you do with the stick. Which is indeed bug territory ...

Until I put the above settings in, I found I was overcompensating for the lean angle movements. I find these settings a lot easier to hold the lean angle through a corner too.

Careful though: your max steering will be 16 degrees, much less that what the bike can do (20 something typically). This won't matter most of the time on the track but it will when walking the bike and, hear that, when wheeling

PS: I also think using manual rider movement is essential when using DSA or presumably with DST too. Forward and back rider movements make big differences to corner handling on corner entries and exits(back for entry and forward for exit I found best). Also using the left right rider movements to smoothly enter corners as those movements actually gently lean the bike into corners without any handlebar inputs.

With DST/DSA you have no choice, you have to have manual rider lean, there's no auto rider lean (even if in the settings it seems there is). With DST/DSA if you don't lean the rider, it will stay "in the middle".

[h106frp]

I would have thought the steering is modeled after the real physics with the gyroscopic forces, masses, lean angles, rake, castor etc producing the correct effects on the steering and rider with the wheel on or off the deck. Is this not the case?

[HornetMaX]

I would have thought the steering is modeled after the real physics with the gyroscopic forces, masses, lean angles, rake, castor etc producing the correct effects on the steering and rider with the wheel on or off the deck. Is this not the case?

It is, there just seems to be some strange thing going on in special situations (bike stopped, wheeline, ...).

[Klax75]

Hi All,

Been a long time.

In previous betas when using DST the handle bars would flop to one side or another as soon as you spawned. Which made putting the bike on the grid very difficult. Since you had to go right, left, right, left while walking the bike. I asked Piboso if he could do something about it. Now if you don't have the bike in gear, the virtual rider would "take control" of the handlebars, so you can walk the bike, and get in position. Once you put in any gear it will put the steering back to DST. Which with practice you can put it in gear and start moving long before the handle bars fall to either side. It's 1000% better then it use to be. Then it would always be to one side and had to fight with it to keep it straight until you got enough speed from them to straighten out.

It's only the smaller bikes you may have trouble getting going since they don't have the power, but for those rev the engine then put it in gear and keep the revs high to get some speed do it right and the handle bars won't have time to flop to one side.


P.S. Sorry haven't been around trying to sort out some medical things. Plus I haven't finished watching MotoGP 15 season or WSBK 15 seasons yet, and coming here people would be talking about it and don't want it ruined before I am finished watching. But I am still here.

[Hawk]

Hi All,

Been a long time.

In previous betas when using DST the handle bars would flop to one side or another as soon as you spawned. Which made putting the bike on the grid very difficult. Since you had to go right, left, right, left while walking the bike. I asked Piboso if he could do something about it. Now if you don't have the bike in gear, the virtual rider would "take control" of the handlebars, so you can walk the bike, and get in position. Once you put in any gear it will put the steering back to DST. Which with practice you can put it in gear and start moving long before the handle bars fall to either side. It's 1000% better then it use to be. Then it would always be to one side and had to fight with it to keep it straight until you got enough speed from them to straighten out.

It's only the smaller bikes you may have trouble getting going since they don't have the power, but for those rev the engine then put it in gear and keep the revs high to get some speed do it right and the handle bars won't have time to flop to one side.


P.S. Sorry haven't been around trying to sort out some medical things. Plus I haven't finished watching MotoGP 15 season or WSBK 15 seasons yet, and coming here people would be talking about it and don't want it ruined before I am finished watching. But I am still here.

Hey Klax! Nice to see you back here! Welcome back Boss! 

What we want is to be able to put the bike into gear without the handlebars moving full right and then not be able to centre them again to get a nice start-off. At the moment it's impossible to start straight without having to hop from left to right and if your lucky to actually get started without crashing, as you say, especially on the slower bikes like the 125cc machines(which I'm practicing with now on). I cannot imagine on a start grid, other riders being very pleased with the left to right steering antics with DST before you get going into a straight line off the grid.... It's just very awkward as it is right now..... The thing is, can it be sorted? Or is this a bug?

Till this is sorted out I'm using DSA, but would rather use DST.

Hawk.