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Tracks and corners to test front-end stability

Started by davidboda46, May 27, 2016, 11:30:18 AM

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Vini

no but he should know how much lean angle is possible, which is apperantly not the case at the moment.


BOBR6 84

May 28, 2016, 01:40:35 PM #16 Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 01:43:32 PM by BOBR6 84
tricky topic.. if the VR was perfect we would never crash, surely?  :D

the VR needs to ''loosen up'' .. so rigid and ugly. it makes the bike physics look stiff too imo.

Looks like it will remain the same too  :-\

Vini

how so?
the virtual rider is not taking into account throttle and brake (it doesn't stand the bike up for you when it might lose traction), meaning that given a certain lean angle, there is only so much brake or throttle you can apply before you crash.
if you want leaning alone to make you crash, you need to switch to direct steer where it is your job to find out how far you can lean the bike before lowsiding.

doubledragoncc

So are you saying that in normal mode it is not YOUR job to find how far you can lean the bike before lowsiding???

DD
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Napalm Nick

To some extent no.

Look at wet conditions or when you have dirty tyres. The VR limits your lean. You don't have full control.
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

doubledragoncc

So the lil fucker is not letting me chose the lean angle so what the hell am I doing? Is he a pillion who can lean the wrong way and fuck me?

I never realized he had that kind of control

DD
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Napalm Nick

"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

doubledragoncc

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Vini

May 28, 2016, 02:50:59 PM #23 Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 04:08:52 PM by vin97
yeah that's whole point of the virtual rider at the moment and that's exactly why i suggested that you add a second (steering) axis to your handlebar controller (as input) and let the leaning be output only.
that way you can use direct steer and it will be exactly like steering a real bike (given proper force feedback) with the handlebar automatically countersteering when the rear slides, feeling the front end fold, the bike getting harder to steer when the speed increases, etc.

back to the virtual rider and being responsible for inputting the correct lean angle: if anything, you should be able to lean more in banked corners not less in order to avoid a crash like it is at the moment.


if you are so keen on having absolute (as opposed to relative) control over the lean angle but don't want to use direct steer, you might want to suggest it to piboso. so rather than telling the virtual rider "I want that percentage of the maximum possible lean angle" you would be telling him directly "I want 60° lean angle". that way you could input more lean angle at banked corners.
but I can almost guarantee you that this will be impossible to control properly (at least with a regular gamepad), especially with how sensitive the virtual rider currently is to tiny steering inputs / lean angle corrections.

Hawk

Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 28, 2016, 02:06:57 PM
DST is something I have not tried yet

DD

DST takes a lot of getting used to but it is very rewarding and a lot more realistic in it's control, but as far as I know there is only one person who strictly uses DST only and that is Klax.

To try riding with DST in a race were others are using normal controls is like trying to compete with MotoGP bikes on a moped at the Daytona 200. Lol

Hawk.

Vini

Quote from: Hawk on May 28, 2016, 03:35:35 PM
To try riding with DST in a race were others are using normal controls is like trying to compete with MotoGP bikes on a moped at the Daytona 200. Lol
could be much easier with a handlebar controller, though.
at least with a dual-axis one it definitely should be.

Hawk

Quote from: vin97 on May 28, 2016, 03:36:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk on May 28, 2016, 03:35:35 PM
To try riding with DST in a race were others are using normal controls is like trying to compete with MotoGP bikes on a moped at the Daytona 200. Lol
could be much easier with a handlebar controller, though.
at least with a dual-axis one it definitely should be.
That is very true Vin, and DD's real bike controller should be a good advantage for riders using DST and encourage more riders to use it..... I'd love to give DST a try with DD's Controller.  ;D

Hawk.

doubledragoncc

Okay, I know some say that DST is more realistic BUT.............their using a fucking gamepad!!!!!!!FFS what part of using a gamepad is realistic??????  Even GPB has been written and tested with only a gamepad..............HOW can ANYONE say it is realistic?????

Im peeing in my pants just thinking about it!!!

DO you ride a real bike with a gamepad????............... NO FFS so NOT ONE action of a gamepad is realistic. Oh pressing a button is like a horn button on a bike and thats about it. So yes, you have realistic horn function with a gamepad!!!! WTF!!!!

You know why everyone is faster than me?????, because they are using a gamepad thats inputs are unrealistic and exaggerated therefore the acceleration is far quicker, the braking far sharper making them have that edge over a real controller. I have to make over 10 times the amount of physical movement for all my actions than you do on a gamepad, now that is happening I can really feel a lot more in the movements I make and they are the real actions of riding a real bike.

Now we have a bit of understanding about the speed of input of the controller, you start to see that in using your gamepad, the steering movements you make are so quickly made that for them to be realistic and not cause crashes by what you call the smallest of movements, you need to extend the range of movement, which is what my system does. I need 300mm of movement for steering compared to your 10mm on a gamepad. With this amount of movement, anything that feels okay on a gamepad can be 100% WRONG for me with a set of real handlebars in my hands.

You have all been playing with a gamepad so long that it is second nature to you to THINK of your movements as realistic feeling, but in fact they are 100% wrong and not natural. As soon as I make any movement that is not natural to riding a real bike. IE actually turning the bars in the wrong direction to a corner, and it not only feels wrong, but is wrong. Yes you have counter steering on a bike but you dont actually turn the bars ALL THE FUCKING WAY to the left to go right, it is only a very small amount of movement in real life, but because games/sims and even GPB have to be written in such a way as to use a gamepad to steer with its over exaggerated and over sensitive little amount of movement, to work, when you then try using a system that has a real set of handlebars and far greater movement range it is WRONG!!!!!!!!!..............

I do not understand HOW, you can tell me that if I sit in front of my screen and lean all the way to the LEFT while I am going round a fast RIGHT curve it will feel realistic and look realistic!!!!!!!!!!!  FFS, do that in real life and you will end up in hospital and it is 100% the wrong fucking action!!!! And my handlebars are now leaning in the totally opposite angle to the bike on the screen!!! Right, that is so realistic because it is counter steering.............................FFS I am NOT using a gamepad so I REALLY FEEL it is WRONG!!!

I have been riding for over 36 years, 7 as a professional medical courier and rode and AVERAGE of 5000 miles a week!!!! I think I know what feels realistic or not and the movements of a gamepad are NOTHING to do with real life movement.

On my system I am using the whole top of my body and my feet to ride in GPB, If I make a movement that is not natural, using DST  makes that happen, then it is not a realistic feeling and not how I would ride a real bike. DST is for gamepads.

If you want to use DST with real controls you have to start spending a lot of money.

Sorry but it gets on my tits that the big companies in the gaming and simulation hardware industry have totally left us bike riders with only a fucking gamepad to play with, WTF.............Oh wait , that is realistic, its just like in real life where the biker is just scum and comes last in importance!!!!

I am not shouting at you guys I am venting my frustration that it costs so much to build a system that you cant all have one and understand what I am TRYING to say, I am dick at this kind of thing. But it just boils down to the fact that just because you THINK it feels right on a gamepad does not make it viable for a real life movement.

I dont crash as much because I can really feel that I am leaning to far, because I AM actually leaning, not pushing my thumbstick 0.76mm too far!!!

Maybe you should start to think more about how you are actually controlling you bike in GPB instead of automatically blaming the sim or the bike.

If Piboso and the bike mod guys make it that you can ride as fast as you want, lean as much as you want and not crash, then you might as well be riding in MotoGP or RIDE from Milestone because it would be an ARCADE GAME!!!.

DD
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Napalm Nick

Wrong big man! I have replaced my real bike handlebars with xbox controller thumbsticks because it makes my bike riding feel much more realistic. Put that in your pipe and smoke it  ;D
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

doubledragoncc

LOL Nick I wondered who would be the first to say that hehe

DD
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