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Tracks and corners to test front-end stability

Started by davidboda46, May 27, 2016, 11:30:18 AM

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Napalm Nick

"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

doubledragoncc

I wish m8.

If I had the money I would give them away!!!

DD
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Hawk

ROFL!!  ;D

The famous DD soap-box strikes again!! Hehe ;D

I totally understand what your saying DD about even "simulators" being designed to work solely around game controllers instead of real life controllers. I guess the exception is car racing games that have a steering wheel, unlike bike simulators were the steering mechanics are very complicated in comparison.
DST is the real way a bike does steer, but as you say DD, the inputs when using DST in reality are very small to get the bike to turn, were as with DST in GPB you have to make big opposite movements to get the bike to turn(feels very weird until you get used to it); that is were DST falls flat on its face in GPB in my opinion and has been designed to work, as you say DD, with gamepads/joysticks and nothing else.
Maybe in the future Piboso could work on the DST control side of things and add some options in the settings to allow real bike controllers to work as they should with DST, but it's a difficult task I believe.  :-\

Hawk.

doubledragoncc

Yep Hawky, and the biggest problem is that the reality of it all is that while riding a real bike at speed, you are HARDLY moving the handlebars at all!!! It is such a small amount of movement that to have it the same in a sim would make the input so sensitive that it would be almost impossible to control. To make it work you would need to have the steering work on pressure via load cells etc to be able to have only a small movement with a larger input range and it would still be so sensitive to make it very hard to use. I have tried dude lol.

This is why I feel that a lot of this "The bike is wrong, the sim is wrong I crash all the time" is BS. If you try to ride past the technical limit of the bike/sim, you will crash and it does not mean either of them are wrong. Too many people blame GPB and the bikes when a lot of it is them being better off in a bloody arcade game where they can ride and not crash!!!

Everyone screams "I WANT IT REALISTIC" but when it comes to reality of riding in GPB they want to be the fastest and never crash like in MotoGP etc!!! Aint gonna happen until they realize that having it realistic means that maybe they are not as quick and as good at riding as they want to think they are.

So............as soon as GPB becomes realistic and so are the bikes, they crash all the time, not because the bikes or the sim is wrong, but because NOW they have to ride properly and are not getting away with mistakes like they were before!!!

I find GPB and the bike feel far more realistic than they ever have and I crash far less, but at the same time, other riders are now complaining they crash more!!!................Think about it.

If I push it I can ride as fast, but I will crash more, so I slow it to where I dont crash and get to build my speed slowly but steadily without crashing. I think that is far more realistic than just being the fastest and always crashing.

As I said, in real life, you crash once, your OUT!!!

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
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Hawk

Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 29, 2016, 09:53:29 AM
Yep Hawky, and the biggest problem is that the reality of it all is that while riding a real bike at speed, you are HARDLY moving the handlebars at all!!! It is such a small amount of movement that to have it the same in a sim would make the input so sensitive that it would be almost impossible to control. To make it work you would need to have the steering work on pressure via load cells etc to be able to have only a small movement with a larger input range and it would still be so sensitive to make it very hard to use. I have tried dude lol.

This is why I feel that a lot of this "The bike is wrong, the sim is wrong I crash all the time" is BS. If you try to ride past the technical limit of the bike/sim, you will crash and it does not mean either of them are wrong. Too many people blame GPB and the bikes when a lot of it is them being better off in a bloody arcade game where they can ride and not crash!!!

Everyone screams "I WANT IT REALISTIC" but when it comes to reality of riding in GPB they want to be the fastest and never crash like in MotoGP etc!!! Aint gonna happen until they realize that having it realistic means that maybe they are not as quick and as good at riding as they want to think they are.

So............as soon as GPB becomes realistic and so are the bikes, they crash all the time, not because the bikes or the sim is wrong, but because NOW they have to ride properly and are not getting away with mistakes like they were before!!!

I find GPB and the bike feel far more realistic than they ever have and I crash far less, but at the same time, other riders are now complaining they crash more!!!................Think about it.

If I push it I can ride as fast, but I will crash more, so I slow it to where I dont crash and get to build my speed slowly but steadily without crashing. I think that is far more realistic than just being the fastest and always crashing.

As I said, in real life, you crash once, your OUT!!!

DD

I totally wholeheartedly agree with you DD!  ;)
I call them hotlap-junkies. Lol

If a rider is going to push hard all the time then they should expect to crash, and like you DD, I also advocate that one crash and your out as it would promote sensible riding instead of this kamikaze arcade riding style of always going above the limits most of the time and hoping to get away with it attitude knowing that if they crash it doesn't really matter because they can just respawn.  ::)
As Kenny Roberts says: A rider will only ride at 95% of his limits most of the time and only push it to 100% of his limits when he feels he has to and then only for 3-4 laps at most before reverting back to 95% of his limits or your going to crash at some stage.

Hawk.

doubledragoncc

Yep m8.

What will happen when we hold a race that is more realistic and it is a case that if you crash, your out!!! No respawn no getting away with crashing 8 times a race!!!

Then lets see who can FINISH a race???

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Hawk

Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 29, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
Yep m8.

What will happen when we hold a race that is more realistic and it is a case that if you crash, your out!!! No respawn no getting away with crashing 8 times a race!!!

Then lets see who can FINISH a race???

DD

That would certainly sort out the men from the boys for sure! Hehe!  ;D

I just wish Piboso would implement this no respawn if you crash feature as a server option so that we could try this out..... It would be BRILLIANT!  ;D

I for one would LOVE to take part in those kind of races!!  ;D 8)

Hawk.

Napalm Nick

Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 29, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
Yep m8.

What will happen when we hold a race that is more realistic and it is a case that if you crash, your out!!! No respawn no getting away with crashing 8 times a race!!!

Then lets see who can FINISH a race???

DD
Easy no one will finish,  99% of the time, and servers will be more empty than ever.
Ha I am a pessimistic realistic today!
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

Hawk

Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 29, 2016, 10:41:34 AM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 29, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
Yep m8.

What will happen when we hold a race that is more realistic and it is a case that if you crash, your out!!! No respawn no getting away with crashing 8 times a race!!!

Then lets see who can FINISH a race???

DD
Easy no one will finish,  99% of the time, and servers will be more empty than ever.
Ha I am a pessimistic realistic today!

Lol! That is probably very true for the first few races Nick, but riders would soon realise that they have to be extra careful if they are to stand any chance of winning...... In other words it will give you that same sense of fear to crash as in reality and subsequently promote more sensible and realistic riding practices.  :)

But it would certainly help this cause when the bike and programme physics are fully sorted, because nothing would be more infuriating than getting a nonsensical front end low-side.... Can you imagine all the rage quits! Not that you could respawn again anyway! Haha!  ;D

Hawk.

doubledragoncc

LOL Nick, yes it would be a hard one but it would teach people to really try to be more realistic and thoughtful of others on the track.

Some sort of way to say whether or not you CAN respawn, IE a simple slide where IRL you would be able to pick up the bike and ride on?

Very hard to make fair and realistic but I would enjoy it more with less crashing. It would be better in replays too lol.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems

Napalm Nick

Yep I totally agree with you guys in fact, but when you have been recruited by the Devil as his most favoured advocate you have to go with it or risk brimstone enema.  I speak for the masses really.
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

Hawk

Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 29, 2016, 11:05:29 AM
Yep I totally agree with you guys in fact, but when you have been recruited by the Devil as his most favoured advocate you have to go with it or risk brimstone enema.  I speak for the masses really.

Hmm..."Crucifix" stuck on my bike comes to mind! That should keep you behind me on track! Hehe!  ;D

Hawk.

PeterV

Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 29, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
Yep m8.

What will happen when we hold a race that is more realistic and it is a case that if you crash, your out!!! No respawn no getting away with crashing 8 times a race!!!

Then lets see who can FINISH a race???

DD

This really should be a server option under [hardcore] setting.

[hardcore]
force_cockpit = 1 ; 0 or 1
no_aids = 1 ; 0 or 1
limited_tyre_sets = 1 ; 0 or 1
respawn = 0 ; 0 or 1

Hawk

Quote from: PeterV on May 29, 2016, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 29, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
Yep m8.

What will happen when we hold a race that is more realistic and it is a case that if you crash, your out!!! No respawn no getting away with crashing 8 times a race!!!

Then lets see who can FINISH a race???

DD

This really should be a server option under [hardcore] setting.

[hardcore]
force_cockpit = 1 ; 0 or 1
no_aids = 1 ; 0 or 1
limited_tyre_sets = 1 ; 0 or 1
respawn = 0 ; 0 or 1

+1000  ;)

Totally agree with you Peter!  ;) 8)

It shouldn't be too hard to implement I wouldn't have thought? But probably more work in implementing it than we think.  :-\

Hawk.

doubledragoncc

It should be an option even not in hardcore mode.

DD
GPBOC Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/IASystemsComputerControls; i7 7700 4.8GHz z270 ASUS Maximus Code Mobo 16GB 3866MHz DDR4 RAM ASUS Strix RTX2070 OC 8GB DDR6 Kraken X62 AIO Cooler ROG Thor 850w PSU in ROG Helios Tower Case.
https://paypal.me/IASystems