How to seriously tarnish a 20yrs fantastic career

[TFC]

Oh I don't know about all that, I haven't followed GP in a couple of years.. Just going off watching the replay.

[Stout Johnson]

One's personal view on this matter pretty much depends on whether you like/dislike Rossi or Marquez. I am not a fanboy of either one, I just love good sports. But I am gonna say one thing: If you cannot fight for the championship yourself, then you try your best to not be a disturbing factor that can possibly play a decisive role in the battle for the championship.

If Marquez would have been clearly faster than Rossi he could have re-overtaken him cleanly and then pull away from him. But he did not. Instead he chose to battle with Rossi for every fookin corner which easily took off 1s per lap and made Lorenzo pull away. And some maneouvers were very dangerous. That easily infuriates one, who is fighting desperately for the championship.

I also have to say, I do not like the way Rossi handled it. Took it a step too far, but one might get carried away by emotions if someone is getting the feeling one rider (Marquez) is obviously taken sides and trying to help Lorenzo. Why did Marquez not fight back and try to obstruct in every corner after Lorenzo had overtaken him? He only did that after Rossi overtook him. So, you don't get the feeling that Marquez was treating Lorenzo and Rossi the same.
And another rider should try to let the riders involved in the championship battle, try to battle it out against each other without interfering. That is just not good sportsmanship - Period. Rossi's reaction afterwards also was not a display of good sportsman but it was caused by the behaviour of Marquez. If MM would have played fair, this would not have happened. Imo, that is why Marquez is to blame the most here. Rossi is to blame for letting his emotions get the best of him.

For those saying Rossi could not get over being dominated by Marquez in the past 2 years: Give me one example where Rossi did not take it like a gentleman if he was beaten in a fair fight. Rossi was always accepting it, even giving praise to the ones who beat him in a fair fight. But in the last two races he was getting the feeling that Lorenzo was getting help while he himself was getting obstructed. Someone like Rossi will accept being beaten in a clean fight, butif it gets unfair one might just lose one's temper.

Just my 2 cents.... Still was a great season, one for the ages.

[LOOPATELI]

One's personal view on this matter pretty much depends on whether you like/dislike Rossi or Marquez. I am not a fanboy of either one, I just love good sports. But I am gonna say one thing: If you cannot fight for the championship yourself, then you try your best to not be a disturbing factor that can possibly play a decisive role in the battle for the championship.

If Marquez would have been clearly faster than Rossi he could have re-overtaken him cleanly and then pull away from him. But he did not. Instead he chose to battle with Rossi for every fookin corner which easily took off 1s per lap and made Lorenzo pull away. And some maneouvers were very dangerous. That easily infuriates one, who is fighting desperately for the championship.

I also have to say, I do not like the way Rossi handled it. Took it a step too far, but one might get carried away by emotions if someone is getting the feeling one rider (Marquez) is obviously taken sides and trying to help Lorenzo. Why did Marquez not fight back and try to obstruct in every corner after Lorenzo had overtaken him? He only did that after Rossi overtook him. So, you don't get the feeling that Marquez was treating Lorenzo and Rossi the same.
And another rider should try to let the riders involved in the championship battle, try to battle it out against each other without interfering. That is just not good sportsmanship - Period. Rossi's reaction afterwards also was not a display of good sportsman but it was caused by the behaviour of Marquez. If MM would have played fair, this would not have happened. Imo, that is why Marquez is to blame the most here. Rossi is to blame for letting his emotions get the best of him.

For those saying Rossi could not get over being dominated by Marquez in the past 2 years: Give me one example where Rossi did not take it like a gentleman if he was beaten in a fair fight. Rossi was always accepting it, even giving praise to the ones who beat him in a fair fight. But in the last two races he was getting the feeling that Lorenzo was getting help while he himself was getting obstructed. Someone like Rossi will accept being beaten in a clean fight, butif it gets unfair one might just lose one's temper.

Just my 2 cents.... Still was a great season, one for the ages.

Completely agree with you Stout. I can't describe my opinion better.
Of course Vale makes a HUGE mistake, but Marquez on this 2 races was not fair that's for sure.

Let's see what happens in Valencia. This is not over yet.

[HornetMaX]

I disagree on the "do not disturb thing", strongly. Races are races: Iannone did what he felt right in overtaking Rossi in AUS and, correctly, Rossi said there was no problem with that (despite the storm of criticism/insults to Iannone coming from Rossi's "supporters", including italian ones, that Rossi himself labeled as "stupid"). That was a very smart declaration from him, one we could expect from a veteran like he is. Pedrosa won 2 races too: should he have hold it back to avoid "disturbing" Jorge and Vale ? I don't think so.

In AUS MM took 5pts away from JL ... blabbing on Friday that JL is being helped by MM after that is just nonsense. It's just a way to ask MM to do whatever he can to piss you off. And guess what, that's exactly what happened.

Rossi is a veteran (Marquez is not): he should know better than throw it all away with declarations and actions like these.

And my view comes from somebody who, this year at least, was really hoping Rossi would get it: it would have been magical. Now, even if he gets it, it stinks. Badly.

MaX.

[JJS209]

I disagree on the "do not disturb thing", strongly. Races are races: Iannone did what he felt right in overtaking Rossi in AUS and, correctly, Rossi said there was no problem with that (despite the storm of criticism/insults to Iannone coming from Rossi's "supporters", including italian ones, that Rossi himself labeled as "stupid"). That was a very smart declaration from him, one we could expect from a veteran like he is. Pedrosa won 2 races too: should he have hold it back to avoid "disturbing" Jorge and Vale ? I don't think so.

MaX.

well said.

0 points to rossi would have been the right decision in my opinion.
he just gets away with that mild penalty because his name is so entangled with this sport.

[Stout Johnson]

I disagree on the "do not disturb thing", strongly. Races are races: Iannone did what he felt right in overtaking Rossi in AUS and, correctly, Rossi said there was no problem with that (despite the storm of criticism/insults to Iannone coming from Rossi's "supporters", including italian ones, that Rossi himself labeled as "stupid"). That was a very smart declaration from him, one we could expect from a veteran like he is. Pedrosa won 2 races too: should he have hold it back to avoid "disturbing" Jorge and Vale ? I don't think so.

You are not getting the point MaX. Of course races are races and everyone is entitled to try to get the best outcome out of his race. But why didn't Marquez stay behind Rossi after he was passed and look whether he can go his pace or not. If he could have gone Rossi's pace he could have tried to overtake him later on. This is what he did when Lorenzo overtook him. Marquez stayed behind and watched whether he could go his pace, which he could not. Marquez didn't settle after Rossi overtook him, Rossi never could get back into his rhythm.

Let me give you a simple example. In Iracing I can always fight off people that are 1s faster than myself, just by braking late and making a "block pass". Then the faster guy gets me in next straight or corner. After that I do my block pass again. If I choose to do that, I can fight with faster (<=1 s faster) guys all the race. But most of the time that doesn't make sense, because both of us are going slower than we would on our own and we end up letting guys behind us catch up. Or the faster guys gets annoyed and makes a dumb move and we both end up in the crash barrier. Thinking of that, doing that to a guy who wants to fight for the championship generally is regarded as a no-go, that is all I am referring to.

As I said before, if Marquez could have gone faster than Rossi, he surely would have had every right to overtake him. After the initial battles that cost very much time, Rossi even let Marquez ride without attacking him after Marquez had overtaken him. Rossi wanted to see whether he could close in on Lorenzo with Marquez in front. But after one lap it was obvious that Marquez was clearly slower, Rossi had to brake very early in some corners and moved back in behind Marquez. So, if he wanted to keep the slim chances alive to overtake Lorenzo, he HAD to get past Marquez. After that it should have been clear to Marquez that staying behind Rossi would be the smarter move. One reason is, that he could have tried to stay in Rossi's slipstream and try to stay with Rossi until Rossi might have wasted his tyres and overtake him later. The other reason, that it would have been in accordance with the unwritten rule, to not obstruct the guys being in the championship battle. By that time, it was clear that Marquez moves were not aiming at overtaking Rossi and staying in front of him. They were just aimed at not letting Rossi move away, so that he might not be able to keep Rossi in fighting distance by his constant block passes.

[HornetMaX]

I do get the point. The problem is that:

• It's not against the rules (as race direction clearly stated)
• It's basically impossible to prove
• It doesn't justify Rossi's reaction
• It still does not explain why MM, so eager to help JL, took 5 precious points away from him in AUS

Cherry on top: Rossi declared he's not sure he will go to Valencia. That would be the single dumbest move I've ever seen in MotoGP and F1 together. He's in free-fall mode ... I do hope somebody will bring him back to reason tomorrow morning. If he has a PR/press guy, that man should either be locking Valentino in a room to avoid him speaking or be fired.

MaX.

[Hustin_Jawkins]

Hey Guys!

Oh what a weekend it was. All started out on Thursday and got out of control.
What to say? I do understand and share most of your points here.

I am a big VR46 fan. But this move today way not on the edge - it was over the top. So I think there can only be one side concerning this move. But what we have seen were two of the greatest of the sport getting carried away by their emotions. And that was the problem. Yeah, I agree that fighting that hard with a 90 point deficit might be lack of respect. But if you can't get rid of a rider than you are not the faster one. MM should been calmer and possibly step back a little but he still is part of the field and has a job to do.

What makes me shaking my had the most is that Rossi hurt his chances with that behavior. Finishing 4th behind MM would have decreased his lead to 3 or 4 points BUT he could have qualified normally at Velncia - still having a normal chance to race him from the start. Now he needs to finish 2nd if Lorenzo wins (what he will be) but he needs to beat the whole field on a "Go-Kart-like" track. That impossible.

Finally I would like to side with Pedrosa. I actually don't like him but he has shown the most adult and objective reaction today. He said that if the rules would be more precisely riders will not have the possibility to be racing in that way. A lot of riders in M2 and M3 get away with stupid moves. Rossi got away often with stupid moves. Remember Marc's first MGP year - he also got away with stupid moves nearly wrecking everybody. Argentina, Assen and today would not have happened if race direction had been more balanced and clearer with giving penalties.

So boys - that's my way of looking at today's race. Even as a Vale fan .

[Stout Johnson]

I do get the point. The problem is that:

• It's not against the rules (as race direction clearly stated)
• It's basically impossible to prove
• It doesn't justify Rossi's reaction
• It still does not explain why MM, so eager to help JL, took 5 precious points away from him in AUS

• I never claimed it was against any written rules
• That does not mean, it is not true. However, I provided indicators backing that claim. Your answer seems to suggest that you would agree that MM behaviour is morally not ok, if it could be proven
• That's where I agreed in my first post already. However Rossi re-acted, Marquez did set the initial problem
• I was not referring to AUS, only Sepang.

The thing is, Rossi's behaviour clearly is against written rules. Marquez' behaviour is against unwritten sportsman's etiquette (at least there seems to be some consensus (to some degree) among former riders). However, Rossi's behaviour was caused by Marquez' behaviour. Imo, the obvious affront was caused by an ethical affront. Whether one can acknowledge that, pretty much depends on whether one does agree that Marquez behaviour was ethical ok or not. I did make my case for the latter, you for the first MaX. You cannot deny MaX, there are notable riders backing that Marquez' behaviour was not ok (there are also the other side ofc, but I never denied that).[/list]

[CapeDoctor]

i've been a huge rossi fan since the early days - i still proudly display a huge framed photo of him on the Repsol Honda in the '02 Donington GP, which i took by sneaking through the fence and basically standing a few feet off the track just on the exit to Melbourne hairpin, lol
watching this incident live had me feeling a little empty - what he did was wrong, plain and simple - and for me, severely dented the way in which i see him.
whatever his feelings toward marc, you simply don't do that to other riders, ever.
in contrast to last week's phillip island race, which will long stand as an all-time classic, and a highlight of how great this sport can be, to this incident, which is a personal low point.
the doctor has let this kid get under his skin, and it has shown here, in the worst possible way and at detriment to the championship.
if he doesn't get his 10th champs this year, and that's beginning to look like an outside bet, then he will only have himself to blame.
and like i said, i am a long time, huge fan of the man.

[RiccoChicco]

Explainations from the Doctor :

https://www.facebook.com/devino.class/videos/1506272059670877/

About my feeling, I don't want to take any part for any rider, except that Dani has done a great job. Otherwise, MotoGP is looking so bad today...

[Daniel_F]

From hero to zero in one kick

[JJS209]

if 46 would have been faster than 93, he would let marc stand on fourth places and would have tryed to get 99.
but 46 wasnt fast enought to open a gap between him and 93.
additional he did look 3 times where marc is while he was clearly pushing him to the track limits for serious reason.
also he used his foot to kick marc in that situation that the doctors caused by himself.
rossi willingness takes chances for a injury of marc by his caused crashed of him.

that man is totaly not a gentleman and has shown what kind of character he has.

[Boerenlater]

if 46 would have been faster than 93, he would let marc stand on fourth places and would have tryed to get 99.
but 46 wasnt fast enought to open a gap between him and 93.
additional he did look 3 times where marc is while he was clearly pushing him to the track limits for serious reason.
also he used his foot to kick marc in that situation that the doctors caused by himself.
rossi willingness takes chances for a injury of marc by his caused crashed of him.

that man is totaly not a gentleman and has shown what kind of character he has.

Agreed.

[RiccoChicco]

Both Rossi and Marquez were riding stupidly, but if I'm convinced of something, it's that Rossi didn't kick Marquez. I've been watched every replay since the race and it's pretty clear that Marquez put his helmet on Rossi's leg. His leg moved after Marquez started to loose control of his bike. So yes VR46 tried something quite strange and not very correct, but he didn't kick Marquez. And again both are stupid and are not giving a good image of MotoGP.